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This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 22:20:56

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Hello, and welcome back to Maximum Power, the Blake Seven podcast, that if it has a failing, it has a tendency to give more information than requested, or less information than requested, but seldom gives you the information that is requested.

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Hello, I'm Cy.

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I'm Nathan.

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I'm Peter.

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And I'm Simon.

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And we're here towards the tail end of series D for orbit and...

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I think we're all quite excited about this one And it's the return of Robert Holmes for his final script for the series.

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And like in series D. We have had one episode where he's kind of warming up, and then another episode where he completely goes for it in the most Robert Holmesey way possible, and this episode, he really goes for it.

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Simon, what do you think of this one?

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Well, I feel that, and I, there are other episodes which I love, uh, and may even be my favourite, but I, watching it today in advance of this.

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I cannot shake the feeling that the entirety of Blake 7 exists to build up to this episode.

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It is, I think, it is, it is why Blake 7 exists so that we can, we can watch orbit.

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It is just so superb.

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Everyone is on form.

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The direction is fantastic.

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The delivery, the lines are fantastic themselves, but then the delivery of those lines is just so spot on.

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I'm just blown away even now.

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Well, that's the episode.

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We're done.

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Yeah, I agree with all of that. put that on repeat. put it on repeat and then you just say that again.

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Yeah, fine, you know.

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For me, I think this is like the best or the 2nd best episode of the season and probably one of the top 5 episodes of the series, I would say. just endlessly quotable and terrifically entertaining, as well as being a solid story and technically adept.

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I mean, you don't often get that combination of things.

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It's also incredibly economical.

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The action takes place on 3 sets.

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Basically, the shuttle bridge, agrarian's headquarters, and Scorpio.

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So it's cheap as well.

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It's amazing.

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It's got the smallest cast of any Blake 7 episode at all.

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There are 2 guest characters, and that's it.

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There are no extras.

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Nothing.

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It's incredibly economically written.

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And like I think it is Holmes absolutely kind of nailing Blake 7.

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And he does it very quickly, doesn't he?

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Like I think his 1st story, which is killer in series, B, is incredibly good.

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And it's a very good, like, standard Blake 7 episode.

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You know, it's the usual thing where, you know, taking over a communications base in order to get a crystal, blah, blah, blah, and then there's a B plot with sort of killer zombie pathogens and stuff.

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Um, it, and he, he's the one I think who more than anyone else gets, how good it is to pair up Villa and Avon, even before, um, Blake leaves.

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And so this depends on that, doesn't it?

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And it actually has him kind of properly driving a truck through that thing in a way that makes you wonder how the show can have continued if we'd had another series.

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And I know we would have all forgotten about it. would never have been mentioned again.

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It would be fine or Tanneth Lee would come along and do an episode about it, perhaps.

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Um, but it is so astounding uh, what even tries to do at the end.

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Uh, and so unlike anything that you would normally get in, in kind of just a, you know, week to week, non-serialized TV show.

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It's really something, it still surprises me, I think.

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You know, only Bob Holmes does comedy, Blake 7.

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I mean, if you discount voice from the past.

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That's just a comedy of errors.

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And I can only imagine if this episode had been in the hands of someone like George Spanton Foster how far it would have gone off the rails.

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He wouldn't have known where to draw the line.

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But this kind of Blake 7 is exclusively within Bob Holmes purview.

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It, that rendering the show, Nathan, like you said, where Avon and Villa are the odd couple.

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And Avon comedy spits out his drink and calls Villa a dummy.

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It's that version of Blake 7.

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So I think any episode that's set in that universe is really welcome, and this is, as you said, the best example of it.

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This definitely feels like Robert Holmes is more comfortable doing this than he was doing traitor at the start of the season, where, although he's got the Dana and Tarrant pairing, and he's good with a pair of characters, but you always sense that his his wheelhouse is always Avon and Villa and he just gets that relationship so brilliantly and so spot on and wants to explore what they can do and how the 2 actors can push it as well.

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Um, and he gives, um, there was all that always that saying, if they knew they'd got a Bob Holmes script, they didn't have to worry because it was going to be brilliant.

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And for Michael Keating and Paul Darrow it really is.

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In fact, there's a fake out, isn't there?

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It looks like it's going to be a Dana and Terrence.

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Yes.

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And then we decide not to do that.

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Which occurred to me.

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Why do you think I'm sending Terrence?

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Yes.

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And it's the 2 of them like stupidly volunteering, and they don't play it like that because both of them kind of think it's funny that they're being called upon to do this and they go, oh, well, all right, I'll go and do it, and then, no, Bob Holmes is on this week and he wants Villa and Avon, and so that's how it goes down.

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And of course, we introduce the line, uh, that uh, ends the episode, so brilliantly at that point.

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You know, you always say you're safe with me.

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I think Paul Darrow and Michael Keating are clearly loving every minute of it, like they always do with the Blake's, with a, like they always do with a Robert Holmes script, and Paul Darrow brings a surprisingly light touch to the dialogue he's given.

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He's clearly revelling and he shows that different side of Avon.

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You know where he has fun at Villa's expense.

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He says things, I didn't know you better, Villa.

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I'd assume you were trying to get out of this.

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It's really nice and it's really light.

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Yes, and that's the great thing about the performances.

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I think from everybody is that nobody's labouring over any of their lines.

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They are all just kind of thrown away in this beautiful, casual nature, which just makes them all the more brilliant, uh, the way they said.

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And it's not just the 2 of them.

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I think John Savan is just utterly spectacular, the way he carries that role.

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And there's so much, and I don't know whether his direction.

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I mean, this is the kind of thing they come up with rehearsals, but there are just, there's this all these lovely little bits of business that, uh, you know, um, Agrarian and Pinder are doing.

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I mean, I'm just thinking of the bit where earlier on when they're actually talking over the communicator, and I think Avon says, suggests that Agorian is forgotten, or Agorian feels seems a bit hurt that he, he, he, it sounds like he's been forgotten, and Pindar over his shoulders, just sort of does this sort of smirk, and and just the way, you know, John Severn looks up at him and sort of tells him off and not sort of tells him off with his eyes whilst continuing the dialogue, that is not in the script.

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Like, I am sure that that little action is not in the script, and it's all that kind of thing, which just adds depth to the characters, and they're all doing it.

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So, I mean, I thought the same thing when I was watching it.

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The business is marvellous in this episode.

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And not contrived at all.

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Not contrived, absolutely.

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And the direction is fluid in following it.

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So you see everything that you need to.

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And that moment you referenced, there was a slightly different moment, which I adored, where Agrarian says he's alone on the base.

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And then he kind of casts this drag queen snarl over his shoulder at Pinder, who looks hurt and then wanders off to the chess game.

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And also when Pinder reaches out to activate the tachyon funnel and Agorian slaps his hand, it's just perfection and it's all caught on camera, but it's not laboured, like you said.

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But it's because, and I said this, I remember saying this during the killer episode as well, which is another episode, which is one of my all-time favourites, is, and I think one of the reasons why and why it all comes across so well, is because there are no sort of silly action sequences in any of those episodes.

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So they're not wasting the precious little studio time.

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They have trying to make those effect shots in those fight scenes, look believable.

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And so they cannot, I think, spend a little bit more time on sequences like that to make sure all those little bits are captured, which is all the little stuff that they've come up with during the week.

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I imagine is a week at Acton or wherever it is to rehearse. 10 days, I think you'll find, Simon. 10 days per week.

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I mean, that is absurd luxury.

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I mean, I mean, I suppose they rehearse for 10 days so they can have like 75 minutes of studio time on a Friday night, I imagine, something like that, but something stupid.

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I mean, it benefits from just having 2 incredibly practised and experienced actors.

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Both of them have sort of long careers, I think.

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What's his name?

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Is it Larry Noble?

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He's Emmerdale for my 10 years and John Savitant has, you know, never not worked.

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Coronation Street for me.

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Coronation Street.

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Yeah, exactly.

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So they're great, but it is the director who is Brian Lighthill.

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Yes, he only does this and gold.

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He only does two, which we heaped praise on last week as well.

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Did you really?

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That was that was the biggest revelation for me watching it this time is just how incredibly well it's directed.

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There's that wonderful moment of triumph where they think they've sort of won their on the, they're on the shuttle and the camera just moves in on the 2 of them with their feet up on the console, but it moves in on them.

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Or there's one where I even looks across to Sulin, and Sulin says he's bluffing, but the camera just follows his eye line.

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Sulin delivers her line and then the camera goes back onto him.

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It just moves.

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Oh, there's others, um, Agrarian prostrating himself before Serverland.

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And we can definitely see him and we can hear it's a huge performance.

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We not going to miss it, but we get to see Servland rolling her eyes.

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Or that incredible moment.

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Think about think about Yurak, right?

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in Time and the Rani, where he learns from...

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He learns.

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And that's quite well directed.

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And he learns that he's going to be left behind and he's down the stairs and stuff.

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But what we have is the 2 of them, a groin and serverland, talking about leaving Pinder behind, and Pinder appears in the middle of them.

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You know, in between them while they're talking is right in shot and we can see him overhearing them.

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It's so well done.

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Just every shot is really well charged.

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So many moments of Pinder watching and reacting to all the stuff that's going on that he's not directly involved with.

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And Larry Noble is absolutely phenomenally good.

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He is so funny.

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He gets so much pathos out of one tiny look into Atagorian or something and he, you can tell that he absolutely worships the man, but absolutely hates him as well.

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Yeah, like the bit where, you know, where he's beginning to be jealous of Agrarian's fascination with Villa.

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And, you know, he sort of turns away and that's when he sort of moves over to the chessboard.

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But he's so like, it's not a big performance.

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I mean, it's heightened, but it's not a big performance and a cheesy performance.

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It's just so well done.

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And you actually, even though it's all, the whole thing's like funny and ridiculous.

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You cannot help but feeling crushed by his response there.

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You can really tell that Larry Noble was an experienced clown. because he's got that big expressive face and all that. and those resentful mute looks of outrage that he shoots at a groin are just so beautiful.

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But what I wanted to say about the direction, these kind of directors, and you see it with people like Douglas Canfield and all those sorts of types, is that this doesn't cost anything.

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Like this, this kind of thought that they've put into it, to make it all work so beautifully, it can, it raises a good script up to perfection in the same way that sloppy direction can diminish an, an otherwise good strip, script to become comparatively ordinary.

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I will keep coming back to this in both Doctor and Black 7 in the locked in the classic area.

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It's make or break because of the director, always because they are the ones that set the tone.

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They are the ones that set the boundaries.

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They are the ones that inspire the actors to give the performance.

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They're the ones that make sure that all the actors are on the same page, whatever that page happens to be.

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See, one previous homes episode that we were surprisingly down on was Gambit, which I had always liked, but I think it's really, really bad.

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Ordinarily done.

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Yeah, and it ruins it, I think.

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I mean, I really think it ruins it.

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There's no pacing.

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There's no kind of verve to it.

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Um, and here where you just get that concentration on the actor's performances and just an unfussy way of, as you said, Peter, making sure we see what we need to see.

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Like, it's it's really very good.

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And we made, like I was saying earlier about George Spencer Foster.

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The reason I like Gambit quite a lot, but it does fail in some instances, and the reason is that he doesn't know how to pitch it and calibrate it.

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He just soars over the top with absolutely everything.

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And so it doesn't feel like it's a cohesive piece of work.

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This does.

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It's expertly directed and mounted.

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And it's so hard to keep such contained drama with long dialogue scenes interesting.

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But Brian Lighthill gets that great studio coverage.

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And he just pays attention to the details.

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That shot you mentioned earlier, Nathan, that pushes in on Avon Villa with their feet up on the desk is a really great storytelling moment of where they are in the script, but it's also just the little things he pays attention to.

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So, when the shuttle pitches up, Aurak almost slides off the desk.

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Yes, and village at least hand and stalls in this very casual way, because he knows that the shit, it's, yeah. brilliant.

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And we are used to seeing that and not happening and rolling our eyes, right?

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But he's taken care to make that happen.

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And there is no way that someone like, you know, one of our regular punching bags like Desmond McCarthy or David Sullivan Proudfoot would have even bothered with that.

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No, and he gets the lighting right as well, which is the key to it, particularly on the shuttle where the moment that the tone of the episode changes, the lighting changes to that that steely blue and it's suddenly really cold and dangerous and feels wrong in the way that it on the flight deck it had felt sort of quite cosy sort of moments before.

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So it's things like that, that attention to detail is really making this episode.

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And it's even the model work as well.

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You know, the model workers often dependent on how much budget they have and which designer has been attached to the episode.

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But here, the model work is really well filmed, and it's literally well, and it integrates really well with the rest of the episode.

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There's some thought, which has been put into this.

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Yeah, because you've got that shot where they're sort of following the shuttle on the screen and you can see the landscape and it's moving all the time.

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And it actually works in a way that sometimes these things would, if it could voga or whatever in the outside doesn't actually inside.

181
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Yes, I often do like that.

182
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Actually, this is really well shot and really well done.

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And the domes are sort of of the base are really lovely.

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It's one of those images from Blake 7 that I remember.

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So that model shot, obviously, appealed to me as a kid.

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And do you remember the moment we see the tackian funnel operate for the 1st time and then the director decides to take us outside and just look at the dome?

187
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We don't even see the reaction we just hear, Agrorian's voiceover explaining what's happened?

188
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And it just makes that moment so much more dramatic because essentially they're just looking at a fucking, you know, like they've wheeled the TV in from the next classroom.

189
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Yes.

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It's like one of those AV racks that you have.

191
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Yes, yes.

192
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Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

193
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But like an Avon Villa rack.

194
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But it's properly dramatic, isn't it?

195
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Like, it's properly dramatic and he's that sudden can't, even Dudley's doing an amazing job.

196
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Yes, Dudley is so...

197
00:17:05.519 --> 00:17:06.599
Dudley.

198
00:17:06.660 --> 00:17:11.160
No, you know that you know that to be to be untrue.

199
00:17:11.220 --> 00:17:11.759
That's true.

200
00:17:14.220 --> 00:17:20.099
Brian Lighthill has also got the best out of Dudley for gold, so there is something with him.

201
00:17:20.160 --> 00:17:32.579
And again, the sort of contrast between these 2 scripts and the way he directs, because the previous week has been all action and fast paced, and this is slower paced and character building stuff.

202
00:17:32.640 --> 00:17:36.900
He's, yeah, he's a really amazing find at the tail end of the series.

203
00:17:36.960 --> 00:17:49.079
And I suspect if we'd had series E, he'd have gone on with Mary Ridge to be the 2 main directors of the show at that and the show would have benefitted hugely from that.

204
00:17:49.920 --> 00:18:01.200
Did you notice, speaking of like the music and the soundscape, that Agorian's lab, has that same background sound that every high-tech series delocation has?

205
00:18:01.259 --> 00:18:08.640
So from the hummock HQ to Muller's office, they all have that kind of, it's like a high pitched tone with little bleeps and blurps.

206
00:18:08.700 --> 00:18:10.079
Everything sounds exactly the same.

207
00:18:10.140 --> 00:18:13.079
Yeah, Liz Parker's not earning her money, even though she doesn't.

208
00:18:13.200 --> 00:18:15.839
Could you work in an environment like that?

209
00:18:15.900 --> 00:18:18.539
I'd be going around trying to find what made the noise.

210
00:18:18.599 --> 00:18:19.500
You know what I mean?

211
00:18:19.559 --> 00:18:21.119
And kind of throwing it out the window.

212
00:18:21.180 --> 00:18:23.819
Taking the battery out of the fire alarm.

213
00:18:23.880 --> 00:18:24.900
That's right.

214
00:18:24.960 --> 00:18:26.940
Actually, it's interesting.

215
00:18:27.000 --> 00:18:31.740
We talked about, you mentioned before about the fact that there's only really 3 sets, you know, Scorpio, the shuttle, and the bass.

216
00:18:31.799 --> 00:18:34.440
And the base says he's not very big.

217
00:18:34.559 --> 00:18:35.640
No.

218
00:18:35.700 --> 00:18:37.440
No, but it has a feeling.

219
00:18:37.500 --> 00:18:37.740
It does.

220
00:18:37.859 --> 00:18:38.160
Yes.

221
00:18:38.220 --> 00:18:39.059
Yeah.

222
00:18:39.059 --> 00:18:40.559
And the shuttle's not very big.

223
00:18:40.619 --> 00:18:45.660
So they must have had like acres of studio space to just like put up their deck chairs or something in.

224
00:18:45.720 --> 00:18:48.480
And also the only Blake 7 episode with no film.

225
00:18:48.539 --> 00:18:50.519
Ah wow.

226
00:18:50.579 --> 00:18:51.420
The only one?

227
00:18:51.599 --> 00:18:53.460
Not even spaceful.

228
00:18:53.519 --> 00:18:55.440
I suppose baseball.

229
00:18:55.500 --> 00:18:57.720
No, because they all had they all had filming at...

230
00:18:57.779 --> 00:18:58.680
Of course they did. list.

231
00:18:58.740 --> 00:18:59.759
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

232
00:18:59.819 --> 00:19:09.359
There is that little bit of the set that you sort of see, which is where, you know, the urinals that Avan and Villa standing. so dramatically in it.

233
00:19:09.900 --> 00:19:14.400
It's just usual dramatic stands just to be scanned for a weapon.

234
00:19:14.460 --> 00:19:15.059
It's brilliant.

235
00:19:16.019 --> 00:19:26.759
I mean, we did say earlier that Paul Darrow loves the light touch of the lines, but he is also, like, he's cheering on the scenery in some places, has become a feast.

236
00:19:26.819 --> 00:19:29.759
So I thought of him standing in the urinal.

237
00:19:29.819 --> 00:19:31.740
And I wonder, do you actually stand like that?

238
00:19:31.799 --> 00:19:32.460
wouldn't it splash everywhere?

239
00:19:32.519 --> 00:19:34.619
Anyway. his pizza?

240
00:19:34.680 --> 00:19:48.420
He's a remarkable delivery of an otherwise innocuous line where he says, this is Avon in the privateer Scorpio calling Aglorian in Malodar command.

241
00:19:48.480 --> 00:19:50.759
Yes, but really?

242
00:19:50.759 --> 00:19:53.400
that because he's taking the piss out of a glory.

243
00:19:53.940 --> 00:19:55.500
Yes, I know he is.

244
00:19:55.559 --> 00:20:00.059
I know he is, but there's a quick cutaway to Michael Keating as well like going, what the fuck is he doing?

245
00:20:02.279 --> 00:20:04.980
It's the Paul Darrow show.

246
00:20:05.039 --> 00:20:07.740
It really is the pulled down show at this and we love it for it.

247
00:20:07.799 --> 00:20:10.079
It is a great choice, isn't it?

248
00:20:10.140 --> 00:20:21.539
Because it could have been a sort of fairly boring line and he's clearly noticed that Holmes is making fun of Agrarian because he's referring to him and his boyfriend as Maladar command.

249
00:20:21.599 --> 00:20:23.940
Yeah, yeah, it's a terrific line.

250
00:20:24.000 --> 00:20:26.099
I really, really enjoyed his reading of it.

251
00:20:32.880 --> 00:20:39.960
I mean, the script is properly amazing for what it does with that relationship.

252
00:20:40.019 --> 00:20:43.140
It's whatever happened to Baby Jane in space, isn't it?

253
00:20:43.259 --> 00:20:51.299
So, abusive antagonistic relationship of 2 people stuck with each other for decades.

254
00:20:51.359 --> 00:20:55.740
And they sort of they can't live with each other, but they also can't live without each other.

255
00:20:55.799 --> 00:21:01.559
In a way, what was exciting at the time was just seeing gay people on screen because it's very clear.

256
00:21:01.680 --> 00:21:02.940
Do you know what I mean?

257
00:21:03.000 --> 00:21:06.720
even to me at the age of 12, that that's what's going on there.

258
00:21:06.779 --> 00:21:18.059
And even though they are both, and particularly, um, agrarian, so horrific, like just such horrendous, awful people.

259
00:21:18.059 --> 00:21:19.740
And it goes from.

260
00:21:19.799 --> 00:21:22.140
Yeah, yeah, they're grotesque, like huge grotesque.

261
00:21:22.200 --> 00:21:23.460
They're physically disgusting.

262
00:21:23.519 --> 00:21:26.880
Like Sabinant, you know, like he's he's got the big mole.

263
00:21:26.940 --> 00:21:29.819
Oh, he's got that big wig.

264
00:21:29.940 --> 00:21:31.440
Yeah, wig.

265
00:21:31.500 --> 00:21:37.140
But there's just a sort of horror around his physicality as well, like the way he touches Villa's face.

266
00:21:37.200 --> 00:21:39.960
It's all really creepy and oily.

267
00:21:40.619 --> 00:21:41.039
Yeah, yeah.

268
00:21:41.099 --> 00:21:42.539
Like he's just physically revolting.

269
00:21:42.599 --> 00:21:48.720
And the way that he sort of, like how pathetically he bases himself before Servoland.

270
00:21:48.720 --> 00:21:59.279
And, like, I have to think, you know, that bit of extra information that Aurak drops about why his degree from Bellhangria University was rescinded.

271
00:21:59.339 --> 00:22:02.579
Like there's only one way of understanding.

272
00:22:02.579 --> 00:22:07.500
Like, I don't think gross misconduct meant that he wasn't footnoting correctly.

273
00:22:07.559 --> 00:22:16.440
Like, I think that we have to read that he was doing something and and also the age difference as well, because Agrarian wasn't exposed to Hoffel's radiation.

274
00:22:16.440 --> 00:22:23.039
And he disappeared 10 years ago and and Pinder was 18 at the time as well.

275
00:22:23.099 --> 00:22:24.599
Yeah, took a young man away with him.

276
00:22:24.660 --> 00:22:26.700
Are you saying you're not a genius?

277
00:22:27.059 --> 00:22:31.200
Well, I'm not...

278
00:22:31.500 --> 00:22:33.299
That is so great.

279
00:22:33.359 --> 00:22:35.220
I love that line so much.

280
00:22:35.279 --> 00:22:41.759
There is the definite inference that Agorian had once invited young Pinder back to his flat to talk about the theatre.

281
00:22:46.079 --> 00:22:49.740
Oh, no, it was clearly to talk about equations, though.

282
00:22:49.799 --> 00:22:53.519
Yeah, he's golden haired stripling.

283
00:22:53.640 --> 00:22:55.079
Yes.

284
00:22:55.140 --> 00:22:55.740
Yeah.

285
00:22:55.799 --> 00:23:15.960
We talked a little bit about it in um, in the 1st 2 episodes this year, both in, um, rescue where you have the 1st kind of person on the show who is clearly coded as gay and just the way that he was associated with kind of depravity and consumption and stuff like that.

286
00:23:16.019 --> 00:23:22.259
He'd eaten up these young twinks, a series of young twinks that he turned into sea devils in his basement.

287
00:23:22.319 --> 00:23:24.779
Just the ones...

288
00:23:24.779 --> 00:23:27.299
Yeah, probably.

289
00:23:27.299 --> 00:23:28.440
They sort of glomped together.

290
00:23:28.440 --> 00:23:30.119
That's what Peter will be doing after this.

291
00:23:32.099 --> 00:23:34.319
What makes you think I have a basement?

292
00:23:36.119 --> 00:23:38.700
And then here, do you know what I mean?

293
00:23:38.759 --> 00:23:47.339
Like, again, he's voracious and slightly sort of pedo adjacent and he's eaten up this young man.

294
00:23:47.400 --> 00:23:48.299
Do you know what I mean?

295
00:23:48.359 --> 00:23:51.420
He's consumed him. you know, during the course of the work.

296
00:23:51.480 --> 00:23:55.140
There's been an accident that has seen him sort of age and wither away.

297
00:23:55.200 --> 00:23:59.279
And, and like, it's kind of terrible.

298
00:23:59.339 --> 00:24:04.259
When, when we were talking about power, we're talking about the way that women are portrayed in power.

299
00:24:04.259 --> 00:24:09.960
And I kind of made the point that gay people in like 7 also get a pretty bad time.

300
00:24:10.019 --> 00:24:12.480
Not just, but...

301
00:24:12.539 --> 00:24:13.259
No, no, no, no.

302
00:24:13.319 --> 00:24:13.799
I know.

303
00:24:13.859 --> 00:24:16.740
But the fun thing was, of course, that we were being seen.

304
00:24:16.799 --> 00:24:17.700
Do you know what I mean?

305
00:24:17.759 --> 00:24:29.039
And, you know, we contented ourselves with this and Harrison Chase having sex with a plant and that was all the representation that we were going to get and we enjoyed it.

306
00:24:30.359 --> 00:24:34.079
Well, you know, she is never far from our forms.

307
00:24:35.400 --> 00:24:40.380
You know, Bob Holmes strikes me as an equal opportunity offender.

308
00:24:40.440 --> 00:24:42.660
He loves taking Mickey out of everyone.

309
00:24:42.779 --> 00:24:47.039
And so when the material is this grotesque and delicious.

310
00:24:47.099 --> 00:24:48.539
I kind of welcome the offence.

311
00:24:48.599 --> 00:24:52.200
It's not baleful, I think, or vindictive.

312
00:24:52.259 --> 00:24:54.119
It's just funny.

313
00:24:54.480 --> 00:24:55.859
Yeah.

314
00:24:55.859 --> 00:24:58.859
And it's all a more amusing that it's only hinted at.

315
00:24:58.920 --> 00:25:08.220
So it's never stated, of course, because it's 1981 that Agrarian is gay, but there's all of those delicious things that Bob Holmes drops into the script, like talking about his golden-haired stripling.

316
00:25:08.279 --> 00:25:13.440
The fact that his weapon scanning equipment is the urinals in a cottaging toilet.

317
00:25:13.559 --> 00:25:18.000
And also, you know, his devotion to a diva like Servolan.

318
00:25:18.059 --> 00:25:23.400
I mean, that's all that's Robert Holmes at his typewriter, laughing it up like Terrence Dixwood.

319
00:25:23.460 --> 00:25:31.319
And it also gives us, like you said, that moment where he shows his appreciation of the estimable villa's twinkiness.

320
00:25:31.380 --> 00:25:36.359
Yeah, which is not quite...

321
00:25:36.420 --> 00:25:39.720
He says he says one could become very fond of that young man.

322
00:25:39.779 --> 00:25:43.859
And Avon just breaks into the hugest smile and says, oh, I'll tell him that.

323
00:25:44.339 --> 00:25:45.720
Great.

324
00:25:48.059 --> 00:25:50.099
The whole performance, though.

325
00:25:50.160 --> 00:25:52.619
He's also so Oscar Wilde.

326
00:25:52.680 --> 00:25:53.880
You know what I mean?

327
00:25:53.940 --> 00:25:54.359
as well.

328
00:25:54.480 --> 00:26:01.619
The whole thing is like lifted from an Oscar Wilde play and the role that Oscar Wilde is kind of based on himself.

329
00:26:01.680 --> 00:26:12.900
And even the whole, like we had with Torian at the beginning of the season, there is that sort of with the ageing thing. all that obsession of youth and beauty and so it's all it's all lifting from that playbook.

330
00:26:12.960 --> 00:26:20.099
And I don't think we can blame people from that era utilising gay, like, it's like not try.

331
00:26:20.160 --> 00:26:25.380
I don't know whether trapes is the right word, but like how you suggest that a character might be gay in this way.

332
00:26:25.440 --> 00:26:28.200
It's just, it's just the way of the world.

333
00:26:28.259 --> 00:26:30.539
And I don't mind it at all.

334
00:26:30.900 --> 00:26:35.099
Yeah, look, I'm glad we still not putting up with it, I guess.

335
00:26:35.160 --> 00:26:36.900
But...

336
00:26:37.500 --> 00:26:40.799
And, you know, it is, it is pretty funny.

337
00:26:40.799 --> 00:26:43.019
And I think, you know, I'm allowed to lie.

338
00:26:43.200 --> 00:26:54.299
And to be fair, it's from this time on and throughout the rest of the decade that people such as Jane T and Gary Downey are sort of swanning around conventions, you know, surrounded by all these kind of teenage boys doting on them.

339
00:26:54.359 --> 00:26:58.799
It's not a 1000000 miles, I have to say, for that.

340
00:26:59.279 --> 00:27:03.299
Yeah, you can fully imagine where Bob Holmes has got his source material from.

341
00:27:03.960 --> 00:27:07.019
But, you know, also, you mentioned rescue.

342
00:27:07.079 --> 00:27:16.319
And even though, yes, Dorian is coded as gay, he's also clearly in a romantic relationship with Su Lin in that episode, the way that they come...

343
00:27:16.440 --> 00:27:18.660
Well, when he comes in, he grabs her and snogs her.

344
00:27:18.720 --> 00:27:24.660
So, she's a beard. yeah.

345
00:27:24.720 --> 00:27:28.140
The thing is, it's not coded in a different way.

346
00:27:28.200 --> 00:27:31.079
It's a different kind of coding compared to a.

347
00:27:31.140 --> 00:27:31.859
The agrarian.

348
00:27:31.859 --> 00:27:35.579
I mean, Agrarian does want to marry a woman in this episode.

349
00:27:35.700 --> 00:27:37.140
Exactly.

350
00:27:37.200 --> 00:27:38.940
Yeah, that's what I was going to say.

351
00:27:39.000 --> 00:27:40.079
Is a Korean actually gay?

352
00:27:40.140 --> 00:27:41.400
Or is he just into...

353
00:27:41.579 --> 00:27:43.140
No, he wants to marry a woman because it's serve land.

354
00:27:43.200 --> 00:27:44.640
And, for God's sake, we all want to marry serverland.

355
00:27:44.700 --> 00:27:45.420
Don't be so ridiculous.

356
00:27:45.480 --> 00:27:48.420
Yes, is it just icon worship for him?

357
00:27:48.420 --> 00:27:53.460
Because the clearest thing that came into my mind was like Liza Minnelli and David Guest, it would be that marriage.

358
00:27:53.519 --> 00:27:57.240
Yeah, yeah, exactly. is exactly that.

359
00:27:57.299 --> 00:28:05.279
But where is Agrarian is kind of the, for one of a better description, creepy old man who loves his pretty young boys.

360
00:28:05.339 --> 00:28:22.619
Dorian is the dashing young, sophistic, younger, sophisticated, successful man who is notionally speaking married to a woman, but is actually shagging all these men and boys and basically using them and tossing them aside.

361
00:28:22.680 --> 00:28:24.480
Um, you know what I mean?

362
00:28:24.660 --> 00:28:27.359
They're different parts of the same, same thing.

363
00:28:27.420 --> 00:28:40.259
So, I mean, the thing is, the Dorian isn't physically disgusting in the way that Agrarian is, and he's pretty, you know, he's the 1st pretty man, I think, that we've ever had on the show..

364
00:28:40.319 --> 00:28:41.400
Maybe Stephen Pacey.

365
00:28:41.460 --> 00:28:43.740
Oh, yeah, yeah, Nova, obviously.

366
00:28:43.799 --> 00:28:46.259
The 2nd pretty man we've ever had on the show.

367
00:28:46.319 --> 00:28:51.000
But he's pretty in a particular sort of gay 1980s, early. kind of way.

368
00:28:51.059 --> 00:28:51.660
Yeah, exactly.

369
00:28:51.720 --> 00:28:52.319
Yeah, yeah.

370
00:28:52.559 --> 00:28:55.380
Speaking of pretty people in league seven.

371
00:28:55.440 --> 00:29:01.019
Where do you think Agrarian fits on the Bleak 7 scale of hotness, which runs from Nova to Agrarian?

372
00:29:01.920 --> 00:29:05.460
I'd bring him up for 2 parts, Florian.

373
00:29:05.519 --> 00:29:08.759
I'd put him in not too pass to glory, and frankly, having Sandy.

374
00:29:08.819 --> 00:29:09.180
Really?

375
00:29:09.240 --> 00:29:13.319
I'd be inviting the fan out to dinner, I think, before I took it in.

376
00:29:14.579 --> 00:29:16.799
Maybe same on.

377
00:29:16.859 --> 00:29:17.460
Who knows?

378
00:29:17.579 --> 00:29:20.460
Isn't that someone who's doing fashion rocks?

379
00:29:20.519 --> 00:29:21.359
No, that's somebody else.

380
00:29:21.900 --> 00:29:24.599
I know, he's in power, Simon.

381
00:29:25.259 --> 00:29:42.779
Although he's absolutely repulsive, is really vain and real, and the way that he sort of flicks his hair back, like he's some gorgeous man and things like that, that attention to his physicality is really good, that he doesn't see any of that.

382
00:29:42.839 --> 00:29:50.579
He thinks he's absolutely marvellous and the, the, a genius and everyone will fall at his feet.

383
00:29:51.119 --> 00:29:57.359
I think that the other really shocking thing is that moment of violence where he breaks Pindas are, which is something.

384
00:29:57.359 --> 00:30:03.059
Like, I imagine they debated whether to put a sound in for that.

385
00:30:03.119 --> 00:30:17.400
And it kind of misses not having a sound, but the description of it and its homes with his usual kind of obsession with, um, sort of biological or medical language, he's sort of interested in that, he showed that in killer.

386
00:30:17.460 --> 00:30:20.700
You know, it's all over caves of Andrazani, for instance.

387
00:30:20.759 --> 00:30:29.819
Um, And like, it's so shocking and so kind of awful, and they don't walk back from it.

388
00:30:29.880 --> 00:30:30.779
Do you know what I mean?

389
00:30:30.839 --> 00:30:40.079
Like, there's 2 kind of follow-up gags on it where, where Villa arrives back on the, on the base and says, hello, Pinta, how's the arm?

390
00:30:40.079 --> 00:30:48.180
And then Agrorian's threatening to hunt down the people who've tradition, hunt down his traducers, which is a wonderful.

391
00:30:48.240 --> 00:30:55.859
It's such a great homesian word. hunt down his producers and and he can't get a thread out and Villa should just break their arms.

392
00:30:57.660 --> 00:31:06.779
Also, that moment, the villa knows what's going on where he says, oh, I imagine you spend lots of time in them. or whatever.

393
00:31:06.839 --> 00:31:09.299
Therapy chamber or whatever.

394
00:31:09.359 --> 00:31:12.539
Well, of course, sire, because naughty boys must be punished.

395
00:31:13.380 --> 00:31:16.559
It's just that casual domestic violence.

396
00:31:16.619 --> 00:31:18.359
Yeah, yeah.

397
00:31:18.359 --> 00:31:20.160
Seething underneath it all.

398
00:31:20.220 --> 00:31:25.920
And because and he's preying on someone who is weaker than him the whole time, because he's a classic bully.

399
00:31:25.980 --> 00:31:28.440
And who was once much younger than him.

400
00:31:29.099 --> 00:31:31.500
And why does he do it?

401
00:31:31.559 --> 00:31:33.000
He does it because.

402
00:31:33.119 --> 00:31:36.660
Pinder beats him at chess in front of people.

403
00:31:37.019 --> 00:31:38.099
Yeah.

404
00:31:38.160 --> 00:31:42.299
Because Pinder goes off pissed off to the chessboard.

405
00:31:42.359 --> 00:31:50.339
He's annoyed and so he's annoyed and he goes and beats Agrorian to get back at him and Agrorian breaks his arm.

406
00:31:50.400 --> 00:31:51.059
It's amazing.

407
00:31:51.180 --> 00:31:52.319
Yes.

408
00:31:52.380 --> 00:31:59.460
But interestingly, though, unlike some of the other cases, you get a domestic violence in this era of TV and stuff and film.

409
00:31:59.519 --> 00:32:01.799
In the deepest era of Blake 7.

410
00:32:02.039 --> 00:32:05.160
The main characters are disgusted by what's going on.

411
00:32:05.160 --> 00:32:06.119
Yeah.

412
00:32:06.180 --> 00:32:07.140
And horrifying knives.

413
00:32:08.220 --> 00:32:12.960
And also the script makes efforts to kind of bounce out.

414
00:32:13.019 --> 00:32:14.700
It's not just horrible stuff that you're watching.

415
00:32:14.759 --> 00:32:18.839
There's actually surprisingly tender moments between Aquarian and Pinder as well.

416
00:32:18.900 --> 00:32:22.319
Like the bit where Agrarian is fretting about the plan working.

417
00:32:22.319 --> 00:32:25.859
And Pindo looks worried and sort of comes and touches his shouldering concern.

418
00:32:25.920 --> 00:32:27.119
It's just a little touch of moment.

419
00:32:27.180 --> 00:32:34.500
And they've actually, they've taken the effort to build this relationship to something that's more interesting than just domestic violence.

420
00:32:34.680 --> 00:32:38.880
But it was always going to end with him killing Agrarian.

421
00:32:38.880 --> 00:32:39.900
Oh, absolutely.

422
00:32:39.900 --> 00:32:40.440
Yeah.

423
00:32:40.440 --> 00:32:40.920
Yeah.

424
00:32:40.980 --> 00:32:54.240
It also offers some of the best laugh out loud lines, and I actually did laugh out loud at this one, where Villa says maybe a growing gives him lessons in etiquette as well as judo, which is just an amazing line.

425
00:32:54.299 --> 00:33:00.119
Why is judo being mentioned in the 3rd century of the 5th calendar or wherever the hell we are.

426
00:33:00.240 --> 00:33:03.900
It's a wonderful set of homes here bringing it back to real life.

427
00:33:03.960 --> 00:33:10.259
You know, he's the man who brought sandwiches to Blake 7 and his judo now as well.

428
00:33:11.099 --> 00:33:24.720
I thought one thing that doesn't quite work, but we're attempting to do is the chess thing, because there are kings and queens, then how compinder is unable to distinguish between men and women.

429
00:33:24.779 --> 00:33:35.819
And that also gives rise to that wonderful line where Avon's trying to nut that out on the shuttle and Villa says, if it's any consolation, I never thought you were a woman.

430
00:33:35.880 --> 00:33:39.299
Which I think is absolutely fantastic.

431
00:33:44.579 --> 00:33:54.539
And of course, I suppose we ought to talk about the woman in this episode who comes in and steals the show as she always does.

432
00:33:54.599 --> 00:34:09.659
Jacqueline Pierce giving an amazing performance and actually playing Servoland as a comic character in a way that she's never, ever done before and won't get the chance to do again, but she actually plays sort of physical comedy really well.

433
00:34:09.719 --> 00:34:25.980
The scene I always remember is the scene where Agrarian is worshipping her and she's backing away and away until she reaches the edge of the set and she has to stop and she's sort of even then she's sort of still trying to move away from him the whole time.

434
00:34:26.039 --> 00:34:30.000
She gives this wonderful startled little jump when a bum touches the table.

435
00:34:30.840 --> 00:34:41.579
Well, that scene where he is kind of on the floor kind of talking, you know, like begging her and abasing himself and she's rolling her eyes in the foreground.

436
00:34:41.639 --> 00:34:43.800
I think Pete Lambert.

437
00:34:43.860 --> 00:34:57.059
Yes, posted just a couple of minutes of that and said it was like the best few minutes of television in human history or something, something like that during the course of the week and he's right.

438
00:34:57.179 --> 00:34:58.980
I mean, it is an incredible performance from her.

439
00:34:59.099 --> 00:35:03.960
And, but, Why is she never meeting the crew anymore?

440
00:35:04.019 --> 00:35:05.460
It's so strange.

441
00:35:05.519 --> 00:35:08.219
She just doesn't meet them at all.

442
00:35:08.280 --> 00:35:10.980
And like, I've got no place.

443
00:35:11.039 --> 00:35:12.300
Oh, really?

444
00:35:12.300 --> 00:35:21.659
He didn't like the way that Avon and Servoland's relationship had developed, which is odd because it develops a long way along that path because of his scenes he gives them a Death Watch.

445
00:35:21.719 --> 00:35:26.400
But yeah, he just tried to keep them apart, which is why, of course, it's not Avon in...

446
00:35:26.519 --> 00:35:43.079
I think it was, yeah, I think it was the kiss in Death Watch that he objected to because that wasn't in the script and he was very focussed on what they what's what's written and they ad-libbed that and the director went with it and he said, I'm not, I don't want that, that's not.

447
00:35:43.139 --> 00:35:47.280
I'm not having them together if they're going to misread what I've written.

448
00:35:47.340 --> 00:35:49.559
Oh, okay.

449
00:35:49.619 --> 00:36:01.679
And then the series arguably loses something for it because we mentioned in gold that actually, this is one of the few Avon Serverland scenes and it absolutely sizzles.

450
00:36:01.679 --> 00:36:08.579
You've waited a long time to see them playing off each other and that's what's been missing the rest of the season.

451
00:36:08.639 --> 00:36:11.159
And it is a really great scene in gold.

452
00:36:11.219 --> 00:36:12.900
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

453
00:36:12.960 --> 00:36:16.739
The last one that I did was games and they don't meet in that either.

454
00:36:16.800 --> 00:36:18.719
Like the crew just never meet her at all.

455
00:36:18.960 --> 00:36:20.880
I think it's a shame.

456
00:36:20.940 --> 00:36:29.519
It doesn't matter here because, you know, this is one of her best performances that I'm not wondering why they're not meeting, but it is odd in retrospect looking back at it.

457
00:36:29.579 --> 00:36:31.260
I'm ready to come up.

458
00:36:32.159 --> 00:36:34.440
I'm sure you are Simon.

459
00:36:36.360 --> 00:36:44.519
Becky Pierce got to play a bit of comedy in Moloch, and we saw then how... the eye roll then as well. didn't we?

460
00:36:44.579 --> 00:36:47.039
And she adds a lot of this.

461
00:36:47.099 --> 00:36:50.820
I mean, I can't imagine that little, at the end of that 1st scene with Agrorian.

462
00:36:50.880 --> 00:36:55.800
I can't imagine that little slap that she gives his cheek as she leaves was in the script.

463
00:36:55.860 --> 00:36:57.420
They've worked that out in rehearsals.

464
00:36:57.480 --> 00:37:03.539
Um, but she's just, she's masterful at it and I think, yeah, whoever posted that.

465
00:37:03.599 --> 00:37:06.960
Who was it who posted that scene saying it was brilliant television, Nathan?

466
00:37:07.019 --> 00:37:07.739
Pete.

467
00:37:07.739 --> 00:37:08.460
Pete Lambert.

468
00:37:08.519 --> 00:37:10.739
Oh, well, Pete is absolutely right.

469
00:37:10.800 --> 00:37:12.719
They are the highlight of this episode.

470
00:37:16.320 --> 00:37:18.179
It's also interesting.

471
00:37:18.239 --> 00:37:27.719
I think that the other crew doesn't get left out because even though Tarantina and Su Lin don't have that much to do, what they do get is actually pretty interesting.

472
00:37:27.780 --> 00:37:39.719
So that scene with Dana and Su Lin, where that little girly scene at Villa's expense is really fun, where they're just cracking up about the fact that he, you know, he was explaining stuff to Avon.

473
00:37:39.780 --> 00:37:46.199
And I really love the fact that Tarrant did a course at the Space Institute, there's Terry Nation name for you.

474
00:37:46.260 --> 00:37:48.960
Not long after Agorian disappeared.

475
00:37:49.019 --> 00:37:49.860
That was 10 years ago.

476
00:37:49.920 --> 00:37:51.179
So how old was Tarrant?

477
00:37:51.239 --> 00:37:51.900
12?

478
00:37:56.280 --> 00:37:58.980
Well, I'll be damned.

479
00:37:59.099 --> 00:38:01.980
Even Paul Stephen Pacey.

480
00:38:02.820 --> 00:38:05.760
He just struggles with that and it always stands.

481
00:38:05.820 --> 00:38:09.360
I've noted that because it just makes me laugh every time.

482
00:38:10.199 --> 00:38:13.199
There is something I like about that though.

483
00:38:13.260 --> 00:38:26.099
Like, it is something, and I think you've said this to me, Peter, that, um, that, that Taron is more likeable in series D. so there's a really sort of genuine moment of delight there.

484
00:38:26.159 --> 00:38:39.059
Um, and, you know, it's a cheesy line and maybe he kind of doesn't quite land it, but it is kind of nice seeing him happy about something and he's just excited that they've, you know, that they've managed to pass off the fake Aurac.

485
00:38:39.420 --> 00:38:44.940
Isn't it interesting that Avon takes Tarrant into his confidence, but not any of that.

486
00:38:45.000 --> 00:38:45.420
But no one else.

487
00:38:45.480 --> 00:38:55.800
Yeah, he needs to know so he can deliver that sort of exposition. at the same time as, you know, Agrarian and Servoland discover it.

488
00:38:55.860 --> 00:39:02.219
I mean, that is perhaps my favourite line in all of Blake 7, and it's absolutely Bob Holmes.

489
00:39:02.219 --> 00:39:17.820
Remember in The Time Warrior, where he has Liz Slade and say, oh, it's going to be, you know, say, oh, you're overdoing it on the gritty realism here in this plywood castle that they're shooting in.

490
00:39:17.880 --> 00:39:19.139
Hang on.

491
00:39:19.199 --> 00:39:20.460
No lights, no cameras.

492
00:39:21.599 --> 00:39:29.940
And, and, and here where he has serverland, say the line, that is an aurac, it's just a box of flashing lights.

493
00:39:30.000 --> 00:39:34.019
Like that is a rare moment of absolute genius in the show.

494
00:39:34.079 --> 00:39:35.280
It's so good.

495
00:39:35.340 --> 00:39:37.559
Just so absolutely perfect.

496
00:39:37.679 --> 00:39:39.599
And in fact, the whole speech is terrific.

497
00:39:39.659 --> 00:39:43.920
It's the uh, I warned you about Avon and still he tricked you.

498
00:39:43.980 --> 00:39:45.059
I will kill you for this.

499
00:39:45.119 --> 00:39:46.559
It's so good.

500
00:39:47.579 --> 00:39:49.679
She is so furious.

501
00:39:50.280 --> 00:39:55.440
The way that Jack and Pierce could just say, it's a box of flashing lights.

502
00:39:55.440 --> 00:39:59.039
It's with one fury and anger is beautiful.

503
00:39:59.400 --> 00:40:09.119
And when she's watching them on the monitor and Agrorian name checks her and she just goes up her arms and rolls her.

504
00:40:10.860 --> 00:40:25.679
It's really good, isn't it, that little bit because it is like she's listening, he knows she's listening, and Aurax, they're saying, and he was plotting against like the Federation and trying to overthrow the government.

505
00:40:25.739 --> 00:40:31.500
And so, and like he's kind of looking at her, but trying not to look like he's looking at the camera.

506
00:40:31.559 --> 00:40:36.360
He's obviously into the security camera, just so good.

507
00:40:36.420 --> 00:40:43.800
And the fact that we see it through the security camera from her point of view, him delivering the line, him kind of regarding the camera, but not really.

508
00:40:43.860 --> 00:40:46.199
It's just tremendous.

509
00:40:46.260 --> 00:40:46.739
It's so good.

510
00:40:46.800 --> 00:40:49.980
And even just after that, well, before that, rather.

511
00:40:50.039 --> 00:41:03.360
Um, the, the, the sequence, I think, is Serverland's watching the room and Villa and and so on arrives, they walk into the room from her in, in her, you know, her, her space capsule and you see the action on the screen and then it cuts to the actual room.

512
00:41:03.420 --> 00:41:14.159
It's that kind of economy of storytelling, which is so great and it keeps things moving and it gives you a sense that she's watching and without labouring over the point of, you know, the door opening and him stepping through and all that kind of stuff.

513
00:41:14.699 --> 00:41:17.699
It doesn't sound like much, but it all kind of keeps it going.

514
00:41:17.760 --> 00:41:23.699
Isn't it great that Agorians test of Aurax limitless power is basically to look up his Wikipedia page.

515
00:41:23.760 --> 00:41:24.179
Exactly.

516
00:41:24.179 --> 00:41:26.519
Well, it's a we are.

517
00:41:27.480 --> 00:41:31.079
It's like looking yourself up on Google, isn't it, basically?

518
00:41:31.320 --> 00:41:37.440
It's extraordinary think the idea of a networked computer was just so foreign and space at the time.

519
00:41:37.500 --> 00:41:38.219
It's just amazing.

520
00:41:38.280 --> 00:41:40.079
Computers, they can talk to other computers.

521
00:41:40.139 --> 00:41:41.400
Oh my god, what witchcraft is that?

522
00:41:42.239 --> 00:41:50.699
I want to give a special shout out to homes and space names in this one too, Maladar, you know, Agory and the planet Porphyrus.

523
00:41:50.760 --> 00:41:54.179
Like it's a moon that gets destroyed.

524
00:41:54.239 --> 00:41:59.099
Bellhangria University is an absolute homes name.

525
00:41:59.159 --> 00:42:00.179
He's so good at it.

526
00:42:00.239 --> 00:42:07.199
The way, yes, they're so much better than those 2 syllable ones that Terry Nation comes up with, which, as a rule, are kind of cod by comparison.

527
00:42:07.320 --> 00:42:14.519
Because the homes ones just have this beautiful poetry, this kind of lyricism to them when you, when you, you just, you just want to say them.

528
00:42:14.579 --> 00:42:15.420
You know?

529
00:42:15.480 --> 00:42:16.500
Yes, yeah.

530
00:42:16.559 --> 00:42:27.659
And I love that Maladar, Well, the episode basically starts with a fart joke in best Robert Holmes tradition, where they said, oh, and it's made up of ammonium and soul fat.

531
00:42:27.780 --> 00:42:30.239
And so Philip basically says, yeah, it smells bad.

532
00:42:30.300 --> 00:42:33.059
Like, oh, can it ever?

533
00:42:34.860 --> 00:42:36.900
It's a thing, isn't it?

534
00:42:36.960 --> 00:42:42.059
That all the best dogs who and Blake 7 writers, you can tell their talent, by the way, that they name planets.

535
00:42:42.119 --> 00:42:51.960
So it just rolls off the tongue, you get, I'm thinking of Andrazani in late 7 because if that was just some cod space planet name.

536
00:42:52.019 --> 00:42:53.219
Lets say Zeroc from gold.

537
00:42:53.280 --> 00:42:57.599
It just wouldn't have the same weight to it, whereas Andrazani trips off the tongue.

538
00:42:57.659 --> 00:43:03.300
And I think as well, when they make a big deal of the planet where the doctor dies in the new series of Doctor Who.

539
00:43:03.420 --> 00:43:05.699
It's an amazingly sayable planet.

540
00:43:05.760 --> 00:43:06.659
Trends of law.

541
00:43:06.780 --> 00:43:12.719
It has the same sort of rhythm as Gallifrey, like the same number of syllables and the same rhythm.

542
00:43:12.780 --> 00:43:19.320
And it's a rare thing, you know, to be able to come up with good space names and certainly Terry Nation can't do it.

543
00:43:19.380 --> 00:43:23.760
No, it's not like Marinus or Aristo or whatever.

544
00:43:23.820 --> 00:43:25.139
Aridius.

545
00:43:25.139 --> 00:43:30.300
Aridius. water planet that has recently dried out.

546
00:43:31.380 --> 00:43:37.320
It does, they do roll off the tongue a lot better than, say, I don't know, Ranscore avcolas, for example.

547
00:43:38.579 --> 00:43:41.460
To choose one. choose one.

548
00:43:42.780 --> 00:43:56.219
I just keep coming back as well to how good the casting is in this episode because obviously Larry Noble's amazing, but John Savadant, he's one of the best guest roles in Blake 7.

549
00:43:56.280 --> 00:44:05.460
He's he's only 43 as well, which just sends chills down my spine because even in the script at one stage, he's described as old and decrepit.

550
00:44:05.460 --> 00:44:07.860
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

551
00:44:07.860 --> 00:44:25.260
It's so different to his previous guest role in Blake 7, where he's in trial as the old star killer, where he's very resolute and military and almost flat in comparison to this, where he's just sort of basically the figureheads.

552
00:44:25.260 --> 00:44:26.760
Yes, he does.

553
00:44:26.820 --> 00:44:33.840
And you feel like, and he's an actor of talent who's been wasted and they give him a 2nd chance to show what he can do.

554
00:44:34.559 --> 00:44:40.800
I mean, but what other opportunities does he have to act like this in anything else that he does, for goodness sake?

555
00:44:40.860 --> 00:44:43.139
I mean, there is, yes, minister, Simon.

556
00:44:43.199 --> 00:44:44.039
Oh, that's true.

557
00:44:44.039 --> 00:44:44.820
He does.

558
00:44:44.820 --> 00:44:46.260
He does.

559
00:44:46.320 --> 00:44:49.559
Brilliantly, beautifully, if they have all hats.

560
00:44:49.619 --> 00:44:50.280
Yes.

561
00:44:50.340 --> 00:45:00.960
No, no ministerizing a terrible meat. 2 guest actors this season who filmed a Doctor Who role and then hopped straight into a Blake 7 role.

562
00:45:01.019 --> 00:45:11.639
So there's Scratford Johns, who did 4 to Doomsday, and then Games was his next job, and now you've got John Savaden, who did the visitation, and now Orbit is his next job.

563
00:45:11.699 --> 00:45:13.500
So they're clearly just pilfering off each other.

564
00:45:13.559 --> 00:45:19.980
But I just, I think if the casting of Agrorian had been got wrong, the episode would have failed.

565
00:45:20.039 --> 00:45:20.820
Yeah, absolutely.

566
00:45:20.820 --> 00:45:32.280
It's like, it's like the casting of Justin in animals sinks an already irredeemable episode, whereas if they cast someone good, it could have at least made it more interesting to watch.

567
00:45:32.460 --> 00:45:38.760
But John Sevenan understands the assignment to use a phrase that Simon's used in the past.

568
00:45:38.820 --> 00:45:41.400
He gets what he should be doing.

569
00:45:41.519 --> 00:45:44.519
He knows it's going to be whatever happened to baby Jane in space.

570
00:45:44.579 --> 00:45:49.559
He knows how to craft the relationship with Pindar or Pindar, as he calls it.

571
00:45:49.619 --> 00:45:56.219
He's just gloriously over the topping places, but he also knows when to pull it back.

572
00:45:56.280 --> 00:45:58.500
So it's not just tapanto performance.

573
00:45:58.559 --> 00:46:01.860
So he's sometimes quite cold and menacing as well.

574
00:46:01.920 --> 00:46:08.519
And The way he bears down on Servland is actually quite confronting.

575
00:46:08.579 --> 00:46:20.760
But then he knows how to eat up a line, like, you don't look like the ruthless desperadoes of legend, or when he talks about, you know, do you think I wanted to be here in this grinding desolation?

576
00:46:20.820 --> 00:46:25.199
It's just perfect and without him, the episode would not work.

577
00:46:25.260 --> 00:46:26.099
Absolutely.

578
00:46:33.539 --> 00:46:39.480
Obviously, we get a bit of a tonal shift in the episode towards the end.

579
00:46:39.539 --> 00:46:51.780
What starts off as a comedy played quite lightly and the performances are quite light, suddenly twists into something that no one would see coming at all.

580
00:46:51.840 --> 00:46:53.699
It's phenomenal.

581
00:46:53.760 --> 00:47:08.219
And I think what makes it is that contrast of the slightly lighthearted lighter performances of the early episode really puts you in what feels like a safe comedy space for Blake 7.

582
00:47:08.280 --> 00:47:18.480
And then suddenly you're plunged into one of the darkest moments of the whole, possibly the darkest moment of the whole series where Avon turns on Villa.

583
00:47:18.539 --> 00:47:30.119
Can we talk about how well set up, that is, as well. even though we don't see it coming. even brings the gun into the shuttle and we have dialogue about it.

584
00:47:30.179 --> 00:47:34.380
It's a thing that's worth doing in the glove box and forgotten about it.

585
00:47:34.440 --> 00:47:44.699
He puts it in the glove box where that plastic, the little plastic tonka toy thing is that he's going to use to push the thing out.

586
00:47:44.760 --> 00:48:03.420
He has a conversation with Agrarian, which I think maybe they stuff the lines up or something, but where they talk about neutrons, but what they mean to be talking about is neutron star material, but they talk about the very, very heavy thing that is keeping the ship from reaching escape velocity.

587
00:48:03.420 --> 00:48:08.340
Um, and all of that stuff is is just sort of terribly well done.

588
00:48:08.400 --> 00:48:16.320
The fact that we've brought Aurac down on the shuttle because we're using a short range relay.

589
00:48:16.380 --> 00:48:36.000
Like all of that stuff is all set up really, really well without us looking like it's set up and it's all of that that makes that scene possible and what is great about it too, is that while it's happening, although it looks like Agrarian has been tricked, it's still within the sort of scope of his plans.

590
00:48:36.059 --> 00:48:38.460
And so he has a plan.

591
00:48:38.519 --> 00:48:48.539
It's, it can't fail, and it's visible how the plan is working as well because we've got the BBC micro showing us, you know, the trajectories and stuff.

592
00:48:48.599 --> 00:48:50.639
It's so well done.

593
00:48:50.699 --> 00:48:53.880
Like it's just so well told and well set up.

594
00:48:53.940 --> 00:49:02.760
And what's also set up well is then the extension to, is he actually going to throw Villa off the ship because he implausibly weighs 73 kilos.

595
00:49:02.820 --> 00:49:06.599
It's, it's, it's the right anorexic.

596
00:49:06.659 --> 00:49:09.659
I also weigh 70s. drink, right?

597
00:49:09.719 --> 00:49:11.280
I thought so, I thought so.

598
00:49:11.460 --> 00:49:14.340
It doesn't just come from nowhere.

599
00:49:14.400 --> 00:49:21.599
Like they are desperately trying to track stuff off the shuttles, try and get like there is, they've got minutes like they're really, it hasn't just suddenly happened.

600
00:49:21.659 --> 00:49:23.219
It's not done in 30 seconds.

601
00:49:23.280 --> 00:49:25.139
It's built over several minutes.

602
00:49:25.199 --> 00:49:30.000
And as the door slide shut, as Aurex says, Villa weighs 73 kilos.

603
00:49:30.059 --> 00:49:32.880
It is another example of absolutely perfect.

604
00:49:32.940 --> 00:49:35.820
You see precisely just what you need.

605
00:49:35.880 --> 00:49:44.400
And it's, and also, regardless of whether the fact that we know, I mean, we know Avon is incredibly ruthless and will basically sell his own grandmother, et cetera, et cetera.

606
00:49:44.519 --> 00:49:53.699
He doesn't really normally do that, but it's this moment where suddenly it really is, well, we're both going to die or one of us is going to die.

607
00:49:53.760 --> 00:50:02.940
And it's this cool what would, and you, and you wonder what would, what would you, and it makes you actually think, what would I do in that situation?

608
00:50:03.000 --> 00:50:03.840
It is so well done.

609
00:50:03.900 --> 00:50:07.440
And then Villa, of course, absolutely sweating profusely and hiding.

610
00:50:07.559 --> 00:50:10.860
Absolute terror is crushingly beautifully done.

611
00:50:10.920 --> 00:50:13.500
Well, Simon, you wouldn't throw me out of the airlock.

612
00:50:13.559 --> 00:50:15.179
Only when 69 kilos.

613
00:50:15.239 --> 00:50:21.000
Yes, but once they then throw the tonka toy thing out as well, that'd be enough because they only needed 70.

614
00:50:21.179 --> 00:50:24.239
He's doing exactly what a growing is doing.

615
00:50:24.300 --> 00:50:25.079
That's the other thing.

616
00:50:25.139 --> 00:50:29.940
You know, we've got a glory and is going to abandon pinder to his fame.

617
00:50:30.000 --> 00:50:34.440
And this is what he's doing sort of upstairs.

618
00:50:34.500 --> 00:50:36.179
I think it's really amazing.

619
00:50:36.239 --> 00:50:45.239
Yeah, but Agorian is being doing it nastily, whereas Avon at least is deciding he has to do it because, as I said, they're both going to die or one of them is going to die.

620
00:50:45.300 --> 00:50:51.059
And, and so it's, it's, it's that cold calculating. is like what he goes through in is in horizon.

621
00:50:51.119 --> 00:50:54.539
Yes, when he works out that he can't possibly pilot the ship alone, so he's going to hang around.

622
00:50:54.599 --> 00:50:55.559
You know what I mean?

623
00:50:55.619 --> 00:50:57.000
He actually works it through and thinks about it.

624
00:50:57.119 --> 00:50:58.860
Yes, he is cold and calculating.

625
00:50:58.920 --> 00:51:15.480
You've got that moment where it plays across his face for a moment where he's working it out and you can see it sort of as Darrow's sort of looking for a moment, just a slight agonised moment and then he picks up the gun and he walks out and you know exactly what he's decided.

626
00:51:15.780 --> 00:51:18.179
Blake's not going to do this, right?

627
00:51:18.239 --> 00:51:19.860
Blake's not going to do it.

628
00:51:19.920 --> 00:51:27.719
Like, he's not going to make some kind of utilitarian calculation and decide that it would be a good idea to throw Gan.

629
00:51:27.780 --> 00:51:29.579
He weighs a lot more than 73.

630
00:51:30.119 --> 00:51:35.219
So just to be on the safe side, throw Gan out of the out of the airlock.

631
00:51:35.280 --> 00:51:37.199
You could have won game equals...

632
00:51:37.260 --> 00:51:38.519
Jenna and De Cali.

633
00:51:39.840 --> 00:51:44.219
So it is still a horrifically shocking thing.

634
00:51:44.340 --> 00:51:47.639
It's not just, oh, well, he's making a sensible calculation.

635
00:51:47.699 --> 00:51:49.739
It's either one dies or both of us dies.

636
00:51:49.800 --> 00:51:58.139
The solution, the morally correct thing to do in this situation as far as this sort of TV show is concerned, is to work harder.

637
00:51:58.199 --> 00:52:02.400
They'd already been working together to strip the thing, find more things to strip.

638
00:52:02.460 --> 00:52:10.199
He's already sent Villa down to get some more things to throw out of the thing, throw the, you know, insulation out of the cargo bays and stuff.

639
00:52:10.260 --> 00:52:12.300
But he doesn't wait for that to work.

640
00:52:12.360 --> 00:52:16.619
He just goes, hmm, this might be quicker, you know.

641
00:52:16.679 --> 00:52:22.199
And so it is still like a shocking thing for him. very shocking, absolutely.

642
00:52:22.260 --> 00:52:22.619
Yeah, yeah.

643
00:52:22.679 --> 00:52:26.280
Um, and I don't think Villa would have suspected it.

644
00:52:26.340 --> 00:52:33.480
The one thing, the one flaw in the plan is why does he go, Villa, I think I found out how to do it.

645
00:52:33.539 --> 00:52:35.099
Villa, come out.

646
00:52:35.159 --> 00:52:39.059
You know, like, who, like, like, why is Villa not going?

647
00:52:39.059 --> 00:52:44.579
And this is why Villa clocks it because he knows that's not Avon.

648
00:52:44.639 --> 00:52:46.019
Oh, but he's overheard it.

649
00:52:46.079 --> 00:52:46.920
He's overheard it.

650
00:52:46.980 --> 00:53:03.420
He's like, and this is where we've, I always feel we kind of missed sort of like an echoing of the scenes earlier with Pinder reacting to things that we should have had that mirroring with Villa suddenly reacting.

651
00:53:03.480 --> 00:53:04.199
But we get it.

652
00:53:04.260 --> 00:53:05.340
We just get it.

653
00:53:05.400 --> 00:53:18.960
As Simon said, as Aurex says to Avon, Villa weighs 73 kilos, we're looking at the door behind him, closing of his faces.

654
00:53:18.960 --> 00:53:19.800
And Villa's facing.

655
00:53:19.860 --> 00:53:21.480
And so Villa...

656
00:53:21.539 --> 00:53:22.019
Oh, no, no.

657
00:53:22.019 --> 00:53:27.000
And I think Villa goes, shit, that's what he's going to do.

658
00:53:27.059 --> 00:53:28.619
Is isn't it?

659
00:53:28.679 --> 00:53:30.119
Absolutely, 100%.

660
00:53:30.179 --> 00:53:31.380
Otherwise, he wouldn't be high.

661
00:53:31.440 --> 00:53:33.300
Otherwise he wouldn't be hiding and scared.

662
00:53:33.300 --> 00:53:34.019
Yeah.

663
00:53:34.079 --> 00:53:35.159
Yeah, absolutely.

664
00:53:35.280 --> 00:53:36.360
I mean, all episode.

665
00:53:36.420 --> 00:53:45.000
Holmes has been drawing this comparison between Avon and Villa and Agori and Pinder who are kind of like the grotesque versions of them.

666
00:53:45.059 --> 00:53:50.280
They both have these weirdly codependent relationships, at least when Holmes writes them.

667
00:53:50.400 --> 00:53:56.219
And Avon, as we said, turns on Villa with the same calculation that Glory and turns on Pinder.

668
00:53:56.280 --> 00:54:00.000
So each is kind of this lead character with their straight man to playoff.

669
00:54:00.059 --> 00:54:06.000
The only real difference is I don't think Avon and Villa Shag that we know of.

670
00:54:06.719 --> 00:54:16.619
But it is that thing where we've seen these grotesque and horrific characters and the, you know, the mistreatment and the violence and stuff.

671
00:54:16.679 --> 00:54:21.480
And then when it comes down to it, Avon's going to do the same thing as Aglorian.

672
00:54:21.539 --> 00:54:23.880
And it's pretty bleak.

673
00:54:23.940 --> 00:54:37.260
Like, everyone sort of goes, oh, you know, like, there's a very clear and planned descending to madness on Avon's behalf, you know, and it's probably, let's imagine it's the death of Cali, and he gets more and more mad as time goes on.

674
00:54:37.320 --> 00:54:48.179
But I think what genuinely happens is that he just overacts and there's no one to stop him and he's been in the show for 4 years and the directors can just fuck off if they are going to tell him to rein it in.

675
00:54:48.239 --> 00:54:57.179
Hence that incredibly misjudged and strange series of line readings in that scene where he's hunting villa.

676
00:54:57.239 --> 00:55:07.440
But this, I think, is a proper deterioration of his character, like uh, it's Holmes actually going, let's make him as evil as we possibly can.

677
00:55:07.500 --> 00:55:20.760
And so making him just agrarian, but better dressed for that final scene is absolutely, you know, the deterioration, the ultimate deterioration of his character.

678
00:55:20.820 --> 00:55:23.039
But I don't think he's actually evil.

679
00:55:23.099 --> 00:55:31.079
I think it's actually within character for Avon because what he has been since those scenes in Horizon and the start of the series is all about self-preservation.

680
00:55:31.139 --> 00:55:33.780
So it's the ultimate moment of self-preservation.

681
00:55:33.840 --> 00:55:38.579
It just requires him to take it to another level and consider killing one of his colleagues.

682
00:55:38.699 --> 00:55:46.139
And I think you said earlier, Nathan, that's the kind of story it would be difficult to see the series continuing with after it happens.

683
00:55:46.199 --> 00:55:50.760
I think Avon and Villa are the core relationship of the series.

684
00:55:50.820 --> 00:55:54.780
More so than Avon and Blake, more so than Blake or Travis or whoever.

685
00:55:54.840 --> 00:56:11.940
And to rip the trust in that relationship part, you have to be prepared to run with it, and they do because there's only 2 episodes left, and any scene between Avon and Villa in the next 2 episodes has Villa playing it with that intensely guarded way that he does in the last scene of this episode.

686
00:56:12.000 --> 00:56:13.559
So it actually does carry forward.

687
00:56:13.619 --> 00:56:17.880
I think it's, it's bringing the series properly to a thematic close as well.

688
00:56:17.940 --> 00:56:23.219
It's a little bit like getting Deanna and Worf to start going out.

689
00:56:23.280 --> 00:56:24.119
Do you know what I mean?

690
00:56:24.119 --> 00:56:26.760
at the end of the end of series 7.

691
00:56:26.820 --> 00:56:28.320
It's kind of like, let's do that.

692
00:56:28.380 --> 00:56:30.840
We won't have to include it in many episodes.

693
00:56:30.900 --> 00:56:31.860
It'll be fine.

694
00:56:33.480 --> 00:56:38.699
I think Michael Keating pays attention to it and...

695
00:56:38.699 --> 00:56:39.659
Yeah, I think that's it.

696
00:56:39.719 --> 00:56:43.860
His performance for Warlord and Blake because of this.

697
00:56:43.920 --> 00:56:52.139
He knows the repercussions of this, whereas it might not be written sort of explicitly, the way that he chooses to play Villa from now on.

698
00:56:52.199 --> 00:56:55.739
You can see it from the moment where he says, it's a trip.

699
00:56:55.800 --> 00:57:00.239
I won't forget Avon and you know there's real emphasis on that.

700
00:57:00.300 --> 00:57:05.760
Villa is not going to forget, and Michael Keating knows exactly what this means for the next 2 episodes.

701
00:57:06.000 --> 00:57:22.559
And there is that beautiful scene in Blake, which I'm sure we'll talk about on the episode, where Avon finds them, Dana Sulin and Villa in the forest, and Villa is instantly suspicious of him, because Terence's not with him, and he keeps asking him, if you're here and Aurax here, how did Tarrant get off the ship?

702
00:57:22.619 --> 00:57:24.420
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

703
00:57:24.480 --> 00:57:27.840
Did you know the working title for this episode was a few kilos more?

704
00:57:29.579 --> 00:57:31.079
Truth.

705
00:57:31.139 --> 00:57:31.860
Really?

706
00:57:31.920 --> 00:57:34.559
I can never be sure when you say it like that.

707
00:57:35.940 --> 00:57:38.639
That's my always say it's facts.

708
00:57:38.760 --> 00:57:41.880
You have to you have to kind of underline that.

709
00:57:41.940 --> 00:57:43.380
Otherwise, we won't believe it. yes that's true.

710
00:57:48.179 --> 00:57:55.679
I mean, the tacky and funnel is really kind of interesting because I remember, and I don't know whether I've misremembered this.

711
00:57:55.739 --> 00:57:58.920
So Paul Cornell, forgive me if you're listening.

712
00:57:59.099 --> 00:58:26.039
He's not listening, that I once said that you could achieve the same effect as the tackian funnel by just, again, rolling the TV from the nearest classroom into the room, pressing play on the videotape, and showing your video of a planet kind of disappearing, and then sort of cackling like a sort of bunch of massive kind of hilarious comedy homosexuals, and we could have achieved the same effect.

713
00:58:26.099 --> 00:58:37.800
And Paul actually said much, I guess, Paul actually said that there had it one time, you know how there's the series one novelisation thing that being finished is doing.

714
00:58:37.860 --> 00:58:55.860
I think there had been talk of one of those before, and Paul said that he'd written a version of, um, this story in which Scorpio notices on the way away from Malta that the moon around the planet Porphyrus is still perfectly intact.

715
00:58:57.059 --> 00:58:59.219
It's all the cold.

716
00:59:00.000 --> 00:59:08.219
I'm not entirely sure, though, why these particles that travel faster than light, though, will annihilate a planet. doesn't quite make sense, but I don't care.

717
00:59:08.280 --> 00:59:09.840
Yeah, it doesn't matter.

718
00:59:09.900 --> 00:59:11.400
It's just space reasons.

719
00:59:11.400 --> 00:59:12.480
It's a special special.

720
00:59:12.539 --> 00:59:16.019
Yeah, I'm not really sure what the agrarian theory of parallel matter is either.

721
00:59:16.079 --> 00:59:17.219
I sure it's something to do with calories.

722
00:59:17.280 --> 00:59:26.639
It's probably, it's, is it the same theory of parallel matter that Dastari worked out at this very desk?

723
00:59:26.699 --> 00:59:27.719
It, doesn't it?

724
00:59:28.980 --> 00:59:34.980
Are you suggesting that are you suggesting that rice is mine their other material when creating new?

725
00:59:34.980 --> 00:59:36.480
They might.

726
00:59:37.320 --> 00:59:40.500
No one, the viewer never clocks it.

727
00:59:40.619 --> 00:59:51.599
Do you think the word parallel keeps appearing in the script because Holmes is secretly trying to get us to make that parallel between Avon and Villa and a groan and Villa?

728
00:59:51.659 --> 00:59:53.460
I think it's the work.

729
00:59:53.460 --> 00:59:56.519
Parallel physics, parallel matter.

730
00:59:56.579 --> 01:00:11.340
It's the sort of thing that you might do if you were a writer, you know, just to subtly inch people in that direction. just him there with his pipe in his mouth and at his typewriter, giggling away to himself, yeah, they'll never know, but I know.

731
01:00:11.400 --> 01:00:14.940
Well, do you, like he's, he's incredible, isn't he?

732
01:00:15.000 --> 01:00:16.679
Like, he's the best person to ride for the show?

733
01:00:16.739 --> 01:00:17.400
Absolutely.

734
01:00:17.400 --> 01:00:20.460
Boucher's incredible, but at home.

735
01:00:20.519 --> 01:00:22.860
But Boucher, when you think about it, doesn't doesn't contribute.

736
01:00:23.159 --> 01:00:24.360
Oh, sorry for Blake 7.

737
01:00:24.420 --> 01:00:24.599
Yes.

738
01:00:24.659 --> 01:00:28.019
I'm just talking about if you think of the Doctor Who Blake 7 universe.

739
01:00:28.079 --> 01:00:28.800
Oh, yeah, yeah.

740
01:00:28.800 --> 01:00:31.019
Classic Doctor Who. writer.

741
01:00:31.079 --> 01:00:32.039
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

742
01:00:32.099 --> 01:00:33.900
There's just so much imagination there.

743
01:00:33.960 --> 01:00:38.699
And as we've said before, just brilliant space names in that sounds superb.

744
01:00:39.900 --> 01:00:48.780
It is kind of amazing, though, that Bob Holmes script editing Chris Boucher on Doctor Who is some of the best Doctor Who ever.

745
01:00:48.840 --> 01:00:54.539
Whereas Chris Boucher script editing Robert Holmes on Blake 7 is some of the best Blake 7 ever.

746
01:00:54.599 --> 01:01:04.739
Well, he felt very much like Christmas's protégé and Chris really looked up to Bob Holmes because he brought him in as a writer and all of that.

747
01:01:04.800 --> 01:01:11.639
And you can sense as sort of mutual admiration and Chris Boucher, I think, has learnt a lot from Robert Holmes.

748
01:01:12.539 --> 01:01:26.940
I think for me, the thing with Bob Holmes is like Blake 7 doesn't do world building, you know how Star Trek does world building and, you know, by we know where the empires are, we know what sort of technology we have.

749
01:01:27.000 --> 01:01:30.960
We know a little bit about how the thing is governed. you know what I mean?

750
01:01:31.019 --> 01:01:33.659
Like we know about the world and the universe that it takes place in.

751
01:01:33.719 --> 01:01:42.480
And every episode, the federation is completely different in Blake 7 and we introduce things for a story and then they never come up again.

752
01:01:42.480 --> 01:01:45.840
And all of that sort of thing, which is just how TV's made at the time.

753
01:01:45.900 --> 01:01:47.579
And that's not a criticism.

754
01:01:47.639 --> 01:01:53.820
I think world building is absolute bullshit and really kind of a bad thing.

755
01:01:53.940 --> 01:02:08.760
Uh, and Holmes, what Holmes does, though, is that he makes it seem like the stories that he's telling have, like, have causes that things are happening or have happened elsewhere.

756
01:02:08.820 --> 01:02:13.619
You know, like, like, there's, they're happening in a bigger space.

757
01:02:13.679 --> 01:02:15.239
We're seeing a part of a thing.

758
01:02:15.300 --> 01:02:17.639
And that's not the same as world building, I think.

759
01:02:17.699 --> 01:02:19.320
It's different kind of world.

760
01:02:19.320 --> 01:02:20.099
It's so good at it.

761
01:02:20.219 --> 01:02:21.539
It's a different kind of world building.

762
01:02:21.599 --> 01:02:25.739
I was actually going to say, I think there's an awful lot of world building in Blake 7 and Doctor Who.

763
01:02:25.800 --> 01:02:29.340
It's just the fact that it's as you're sort of suggesting that it's contained within episodes.

764
01:02:29.340 --> 01:02:35.340
And that's like, I feel so much world building in something like Horizon or Killer and things like Death Watch and so on like that.

765
01:02:35.400 --> 01:02:37.320
Basically most of the really, really good episodes.

766
01:02:37.380 --> 01:02:46.500
And I think one of the reasons why it's so interesting and imaginative is because they don't care and it doesn't matter what they're contradicting for what's being said before or what might be related.

767
01:02:46.559 --> 01:03:16.260
One of the most sterile things that was uttered in 1996 when Philip Siegel was bringing back Doctor Who in the form of the Paul Magan Tilly movie and was then, of course, hoping to create either a series of such telemovies or regular series. is I remember being at a monoptical or an optical or whatever it was, it must have been a monoptical because it was earlier in the year, and because it was before the special, the film came out, and he, Philip Siegel was this guest of honour, and everyone was kind of, oh, my God, you're bringing up to her back and all that sort of stuff.

768
01:03:16.320 --> 01:03:30.539
And one of the things he kept going on about in his interview was how he created this Bible. for the show in terms of, like, basically, they'd effectively decided what the true history of the cybermen were and all that kind of rubbish, all that stuff, which...

769
01:03:30.539 --> 01:03:32.219
Straitjacketed all the writing.

770
01:03:32.280 --> 01:03:32.519
Exactly.

771
01:03:32.579 --> 01:03:43.559
Basically, and that's how you get kind of that mishmash of the Paul McGann kind of voiceover at the beginning because basically we have to summarise, you know, the entire series in a pre-credited sequence.

772
01:03:43.619 --> 01:03:45.239
And all that kind of thing.

773
01:03:45.300 --> 01:03:49.079
And even back then, I remember thinking, why do you care?

774
01:03:49.139 --> 01:03:50.579
That's not actually important.

775
01:03:50.639 --> 01:03:52.139
You might think it's important.

776
01:03:52.199 --> 01:03:56.519
But all you're doing is your stifling potential creativity.

777
01:03:56.579 --> 01:04:01.440
And, you know, it's like we've we've really never cared that there are multiple ways that Atlantis was destroyed and all that.

778
01:04:01.500 --> 01:04:02.940
You know, it never mattered.

779
01:04:03.000 --> 01:04:14.159
Whereas to him it matters and and I think that's where Star Trek became in the 90s is quite comparative, even though I love it, is comparatively sterile because it needs to all, they've decided to make sense.

780
01:04:14.219 --> 01:04:16.019
Whereas Blake 7 a doctor, they don't care.

781
01:04:16.079 --> 01:04:19.500
It's like, and not that they don't care in a malicious or careless way.

782
01:04:19.559 --> 01:04:23.699
As you said, it doesn't matter because it's not, it's not being shown again as a world.

783
01:04:23.760 --> 01:04:29.639
In fact, it makes it a lot more interesting for us because then, you know, you don't get the same federation in every episode.

784
01:04:29.639 --> 01:04:31.199
You get a different generation.

785
01:04:31.260 --> 01:04:33.480
And you like this one, you find this one's going to rise into pressure points.

786
01:04:33.539 --> 01:04:34.440
Yeah.

787
01:04:34.500 --> 01:04:35.340
Yeah.

788
01:04:35.340 --> 01:04:36.000
Yeah.

789
01:04:36.059 --> 01:04:39.480
Yeah, I think it really hampers Star Trek in all sorts of ways.

790
01:04:39.539 --> 01:04:42.659
And when Star Trek reacts against it or plays with it.

791
01:04:42.719 --> 01:04:44.940
I think that works really well Exactly.

792
01:04:44.940 --> 01:04:57.960
And I think that's something, I think that's something Doctor Who has done as Doctor Who has become increasingly regarded as a kind of cult TV, you know, part of science fiction program.

793
01:04:58.019 --> 01:05:12.659
Like, just like a long running science fiction program, like it started in the 80s, but just being, like, having fun with the, you know, using it as a source of, of, um, of colour and comedy and stuff like that.

794
01:05:12.780 --> 01:05:14.159
I think is the right approach.

795
01:05:23.219 --> 01:05:32.760
So, I think it's safe to say this has been one of the most enjoyable and brilliant episodes of Blake 7 so far, one that we've all really enjoyed and appreciated.

796
01:05:33.000 --> 01:05:37.199
That's all bit for you, and that's the genius of Robert Holmes.

797
01:05:37.559 --> 01:05:48.420
Join us next week when we'll be experiencing what it's like to be in a blissed out, joyful, drugged up state in a shopping centre in Guildford.

798
01:05:48.480 --> 01:05:51.719
Thank you very much for listening and goodbye.

799
01:05:51.780 --> 01:05:52.559
Good night.

800
01:05:52.619 --> 01:05:53.219
Good night.

801
01:05:53.280 --> 01:05:55.079
It's just a box of flashing lights.

802
01:06:07.260 --> 01:06:09.239
That's the power.

803
01:06:09.300 --> 01:06:13.800
Go, go. 30 seconds thrust, Maxi, uh...

804
01:06:13.800 --> 01:06:15.900
Switching command.

805
01:06:16.079 --> 01:06:18.599
Maximum power on all drives.

806
01:06:19.860 --> 01:06:22.199
Seven pound.