WEBVTT NOTE This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 22:08:25 1 00:00:06.120 --> 00:00:16.199 Welcome back to Maximum Power, the podcast whose sole function and purpose is to gather and accumulate information about Blake 7, but we do sometimes stop all that to make a porno. 2 00:00:16.260 --> 00:00:21.960 This week we're visiting UltraWorld for a timely warning about the dangers of AI. 3 00:00:22.019 --> 00:00:23.100 I'm Mark. 4 00:00:23.160 --> 00:00:24.239 I'm Brendan. 5 00:00:24.300 --> 00:00:26.579 I'm Rob, and I'm Simon. 6 00:00:26.640 --> 00:00:28.379 By ancient tradition. 7 00:00:28.440 --> 00:00:30.059 We'll hear from our new guest first. 8 00:00:30.120 --> 00:00:32.280 Rob, what are your initial thoughts on Ultra World? 9 00:00:32.340 --> 00:00:33.960 Well, hello. 10 00:00:34.020 --> 00:00:35.820 Thanks for having me on. 11 00:00:35.880 --> 00:00:38.700 My initial thoughts on Ultraworld. 12 00:00:38.759 --> 00:00:39.659 I do like it. 13 00:00:39.719 --> 00:00:45.719 It's an episode I like, but I feel like we're a long way now from the Wild Bunch in space. 14 00:00:45.780 --> 00:00:47.939 That's kind of where I am with it. 15 00:00:48.000 --> 00:01:01.740 It's one of those episodes that's very much what I thought Blake 7 was before I started watching it, which is basically what I'd call sort of grumpy Star Trek, basically, but it's... 16 00:01:01.740 --> 00:01:17.879 It's not, I think, Blake 7 was when it began, and I think what Blake 7 is and kind of should be at its core, but it's still a really great slice of 1980 British sci-fi adventure, Tosh. 17 00:01:17.939 --> 00:01:20.459 Yeah, those are my opening thoughts. 18 00:01:20.579 --> 00:01:30.180 Yeah, I think even the beginning of this series felt like a bit of a reset back to how it started with the sort of serialised nature of the 1st few episodes and it felt like it went a bit gritty again. 19 00:01:30.239 --> 00:01:35.219 Now it's swung back to the kind of high camp kind of stylings, hasn't it? 20 00:01:35.280 --> 00:02:07.500 Yeah, I just, I think I'm missing a little bit of the politics, and I think, um, with, um, with Blake gone, I kind of think that, you know, the whole, the secret of Blake 7 really is the, the way that um, Blake and Avon dance around each other as the, uh, the reasonable, seemingly rational, revolutionary, and the, the cold, seemingly heartless man who actually Damn well does have a heart in Avon and their dance, their relationship. 21 00:02:07.560 --> 00:02:10.319 But with Blake gone, Avon's missing that. 22 00:02:10.379 --> 00:02:27.479 But what Avon does have is his relationship with Servolan, which again, again, Avon is just for me an endlessly fascinating character because he's coded as a villain, but his actions utterly betray that to every crisis that tests him. 23 00:02:27.539 --> 00:02:45.479 And because this is a Servolan free episode, there's not that way left to kind of throw anything, throw him into relief and kind of just, you know, be a kind of a, or a bunch of, you know, criminals and revolutionaries in a, in a dystopian, fascist, human future. 24 00:02:45.539 --> 00:03:03.240 This is a standalone Star Trek episode in many ways, where the story, it's fun, but it's not kind of, it's got away from the Wild West politics in space thing, which is what I really dig about it. 25 00:03:03.300 --> 00:03:15.900 I think you felt to me at the beginning that it was going to be a big Avon episode when he recognises that they're inside a giant computer and he's the expert computer programmer. that it felt like he would be key to the resolution in some way. 26 00:03:15.960 --> 00:03:18.300 Yes, it's hog's heaven to him. 27 00:03:18.360 --> 00:03:18.840 Yeah, yeah. 28 00:03:18.900 --> 00:03:20.400 But yeah, it doesn't quite pan out that way. 29 00:03:20.460 --> 00:03:31.979 Yes, it doesn't because he ends up being, well, you know, captured and absorbed for the last 3rd or whatever it is, but I actually really, really like this and more than I thought I did. 30 00:03:32.400 --> 00:03:40.740 I always thought of as a kind of a middling episode, but then watching it again this afternoon, I thought, I actually really think this is really quite good. 31 00:03:40.800 --> 00:03:46.620 And I think the reason I like it so much is because it's it's because it's an ordinary episode. 32 00:03:46.680 --> 00:03:49.680 It is not trying to be part of something greater than it is. 33 00:03:49.740 --> 00:03:51.479 It's just an episode. 34 00:03:51.539 --> 00:03:55.680 It's all resolved within the 50 minutes of the plot. 35 00:03:55.740 --> 00:04:00.000 I actually think it's really well made. a lot of really great dialogue. 36 00:04:00.060 --> 00:04:03.780 It's really well shot, and I think all the performances stack up. 37 00:04:03.840 --> 00:04:06.300 So in some respects, I'm kind of sitting here. 38 00:04:06.360 --> 00:04:13.080 I get what you're saying, Rob, about the, you know, we've moved away from the from the Wild West aspect of it, but taking that out of it. 39 00:04:13.139 --> 00:04:15.300 It's kind of like, well, what's not to like about it? 40 00:04:15.360 --> 00:04:18.060 I think it's actually really quite, quite entertaining. 41 00:04:18.120 --> 00:04:25.439 Yeah, I think it's healthier for me to kind of to kind of judge it and kind of talk about it based on what it is rather than what it isn't. 42 00:04:25.500 --> 00:04:44.639 It's interesting what you say about it not having the sort of political basis, a lot of Blake 7 does, because that's something I found watching it as well, because I thought at no point does anyone say, oh, maybe we can put everyone else's brains back and set them free or whatnot, you know, which is something I think Blake would have proposed. 43 00:04:44.699 --> 00:04:57.300 That being said, I love your idea of comparing it to a Star Trek episode, particularly a season three, I think, original series Star Trek episode, which is the season of Star Trek, where they went a bit more fantastical and a bit more weird. 44 00:04:57.360 --> 00:05:00.420 But I also think there's a lot to like about this one. 45 00:05:00.480 --> 00:05:10.680 Series C is one I've seen about half of, and this was one of the ones I hadn't seen before and talking to Nathan and James. 46 00:05:10.740 --> 00:05:13.980 I think from our show, they both kind of primed me for it to be terrible. 47 00:05:14.220 --> 00:05:17.279 And it's not terrible. 48 00:05:17.339 --> 00:05:23.819 I mean, any any sort of bad stuff I see in it is not unique to this episode of Blake 7. 49 00:05:23.879 --> 00:05:27.779 And it has some really interesting concepts. 50 00:05:27.839 --> 00:05:29.639 Like before we got on mic. 51 00:05:29.699 --> 00:05:35.100 I was saying, I recorded an FTE earlier today, and I only had 4 points written down for the episode of that we recorded. 52 00:05:35.160 --> 00:05:36.839 I've got like 20 written down for this. 53 00:05:37.620 --> 00:05:41.220 And only 2 or 3 of them are like, why is this happening at stupid? 54 00:05:41.339 --> 00:05:42.540 Yeah, like a page and a half. 55 00:05:42.600 --> 00:05:44.279 Oh, yeah, no, that's the thing. 56 00:05:44.279 --> 00:05:52.500 This is a good episode of Blake 7, and it's certainly not one of the bad episodes of series C, because they, boy, they exist. 57 00:05:52.560 --> 00:05:54.839 But this is, no, this is a, this is a good. 58 00:05:54.899 --> 00:05:58.199 If you wanted to show someone just an episode of Blake 7. 59 00:05:58.259 --> 00:05:59.279 This is not a bad one. 60 00:05:59.339 --> 00:06:08.040 And like I said, this was kind of, this represents my idea of what I thought Blake 7 was before I started catching it on UK gold back in the day. 61 00:06:08.100 --> 00:06:14.040 In fact, I think even then, this is what I thought Blake 7 was like, just generally. 62 00:06:14.100 --> 00:06:16.800 The production values are pretty high on this one. 63 00:06:16.860 --> 00:06:34.860 I think the model work is is absolutely exceptional from the the point where the liberator's taken board up to world. the brain as well, the and the setting that that's in. and it's got that sort of Star Wars industrial used kind of look to it as well. that you get with models and chips and things. 64 00:06:34.920 --> 00:06:37.920 I think that those elements are absolutely exceptional. 65 00:06:37.980 --> 00:06:41.459 There's the best in Blake 7 so far, I think, in terms of model work. 66 00:06:41.519 --> 00:06:43.740 I thought exactly the same thing. 67 00:06:43.800 --> 00:06:44.939 The whole thing looks great. 68 00:06:45.000 --> 00:06:55.740 And when you watch like the behind the scenes on the original 1977 Star Wars, all Star Wars is really, you know, if you take industrial light and magic out of the equation. 69 00:06:55.800 --> 00:06:58.439 It's Blake 7 shot on 35 mil. 70 00:06:58.500 --> 00:07:04.439 And, you know, it looks, it looks like, you know, if you take that, if this looks, this looks just as good. 71 00:07:04.500 --> 00:07:07.259 The Marvel shots, 4 blake 7 are brilliant. 72 00:07:07.319 --> 00:07:08.040 I love the brain. 73 00:07:08.100 --> 00:07:11.040 I love it when the brain falls apart, the makeup stay. 74 00:07:11.100 --> 00:07:13.680 I think there are some controversy behind the scenes or upset. 75 00:07:13.740 --> 00:07:20.639 I think one of the makeup artists walked off this one, unhappy with how it turned out, but the makeup, the makeup is great. 76 00:07:20.939 --> 00:07:23.160 And the location work. 77 00:07:23.220 --> 00:07:30.720 Whereas it, yeah, Camden town deep shelter. you know, yeah, it's a really fine looking episode as well. 78 00:07:30.779 --> 00:07:36.660 Yes, it's interesting that this is sort of alien architecture and yet the main corridor. 79 00:07:36.720 --> 00:07:41.040 They keep running along is where Blake got captured before the series starts. 80 00:07:41.100 --> 00:07:42.420 Oh, what really? 81 00:07:42.480 --> 00:07:45.660 You know, where he comes around a corner and someone hits him hits him with a boat oar. 82 00:07:45.720 --> 00:07:51.480 Yes, well, there are things in the millennium centre in Cardiff, which have been used multiple times in the new series of Doctor Who. 83 00:07:51.540 --> 00:07:53.879 So I don't think we should be too fussy about that, Reddish. 84 00:07:54.779 --> 00:07:58.500 It's also in the Sunmakers as well, if I recall correctly. 85 00:07:58.560 --> 00:08:01.019 So it's a well-used... 86 00:08:01.019 --> 00:08:02.040 That's where I recognise it from. 87 00:08:02.100 --> 00:08:04.860 It's a well-used corridor, but you know, we like those. 88 00:08:06.180 --> 00:08:41.399 When I was talking about it being really well made, what I really like is the, um, sometimes I, I said about this, this about killer, the killer episode as well, is that because there's not a lot of actual action, it means that, um, they can spend the precious little studio time that they have actually getting all of the performances right and all of the, they all hit their marks and the direction is really tight and then, it's exactly what you want for me in a multicam environment where it's it's very dialogue driven and you're in these very small sets that are smaller than they might 89 00:08:41.399 --> 00:08:42.360 otherwise be. 90 00:08:42.419 --> 00:08:48.000 And that's hidden by the fact that you get a lot of close-ups and extreme close-ups, especially as a scene progresses. 91 00:08:48.059 --> 00:08:53.820 And I think that starts right from the get go, in the liberator, and then the 1st sequence that where they meet the ultras. 92 00:08:53.879 --> 00:08:55.139 It's all just so tight. 93 00:08:55.200 --> 00:09:04.860 And what I also love is that quite often dialogue is delivered, not in a sort of a shouty way, but there's quite a lot of dialogue, which is not whispered, but spoken in a relatively quiet voice. 94 00:09:04.860 --> 00:09:15.419 And the whole soundscape that that sort of creates is quite appealing for me, added to the fact that Dudley is being kept relatively under control in this episode. 95 00:09:15.480 --> 00:09:47.820 It can be a bit for a period of TV as well, quite declamatory, but no, this had me thinking, no, this is, this is, for Blake 7, it's a, it's a pretty darn cinematic episode, and, and all the plot strands matter in this one, you know, the comic relief with uh, Villa and uh, an Aurak, you know, it's, um, or your mileage may vary on how much you like Villa in comedy relief mode, but at least, at least it kind of, you know, it's the whole, the whole resolution is dependent on it. 96 00:09:47.879 --> 00:09:51.299 And the whole thing is very, very neat and tidy. 97 00:09:51.360 --> 00:09:53.759 And from a storytelling point of view. 98 00:09:53.820 --> 00:09:59.820 The only part that jumps out is where suddenly the ultra say, right, and now we'd like you to do it. 99 00:09:59.879 --> 00:10:02.639 And that's the one, that's the one part. 100 00:10:02.639 --> 00:10:11.700 I think casting and tone is everything because, you know, if you put Rick Mayle in that part, you know, it's a different show entirely, but, you know. 101 00:10:12.000 --> 00:10:24.360 If I can just pick up there, Rob, by saying it's cinematic, just to sort of disagree with that point, because I get what you're saying, that the original Star Wars film is kind of Blake 7 on a cinematic budget and, you know, done with real money. 102 00:10:24.419 --> 00:10:28.379 I think the point that I was trying to make before is that it's not cinematic. 103 00:10:28.440 --> 00:10:30.299 It's actually very BBC drama. 104 00:10:30.360 --> 00:10:34.799 It's actually, I can almost believe it as a period drama, but then science fiction sets, if you know what I mean? 105 00:10:34.860 --> 00:10:35.279 Oh, fair enough. 106 00:10:35.340 --> 00:10:54.299 Yeah, okay, yeah, because of the way it's shot in that very tight multicam and just a 2 or 3 actors talking in a room, and, you know, obviously it's got that sort of, you know, pseudo Shakespearean kind of delivery in some of it, but it's actually, for me, the opposite of cinematic, it's actually very, very little, which is then expanded with a couple of the location moments. 107 00:10:54.360 --> 00:10:58.379 But yeah, it's all very, it's all very claustrophobic, if anything else, for me. 108 00:10:58.440 --> 00:11:00.059 Yeah, not fair enough. 109 00:11:00.179 --> 00:11:00.360 Yeah. 110 00:11:00.419 --> 00:11:01.139 No I see that. 111 00:11:01.259 --> 00:11:05.279 Something I found quite extraordinary on those location shoots is the lighting. 112 00:11:05.340 --> 00:11:07.559 And they get some of it in the studio as well. 113 00:11:07.620 --> 00:11:10.860 Like when you think they're going to start absorbing Tarrant. 114 00:11:10.919 --> 00:11:21.960 There's this green light shining on him and he seems mesmerised and then it's things like that red corridor that they use 2 or 3 times and just a figure walking down it. 115 00:11:22.019 --> 00:11:34.559 It's Via Lorimer directing, and I don't think he's been this adventurous with lighting before, and it really suits the tone by selling that this is a very unusual place. 116 00:11:34.559 --> 00:11:52.440 That shot, and the 1st time you see it, only lasts a 2nd with the figure coming down the red corridor with the smoke behind and everything, and it's really, it's really striking and dramatic, and it's such a short, quick cut to it, that, yeah, it kind of leaves you sort of real, like, what was that, who is coming for them? 117 00:11:52.440 --> 00:11:55.320 and then he just, it doesn't cut back to it even. just them running away. 118 00:11:55.379 --> 00:11:58.139 I thought that was incredibly effective. 119 00:11:58.200 --> 00:12:01.440 And yeah, each time they do it, it does look absolutely amazing when they do that. 120 00:12:02.220 --> 00:12:05.580 You mentioned Rob, the bonding ceremony. 121 00:12:05.639 --> 00:12:07.740 It is very strange, that isn't it? 122 00:12:07.799 --> 00:12:17.340 Because you sort of think of the, I think, up to that point, thought of the ultras as sort of one mind, you know, kind of fulfilling the cause, you know, wishes. 123 00:12:17.399 --> 00:12:19.980 And then just one of them says, well, here's an opportunity. 124 00:12:20.039 --> 00:12:23.159 Let's do this experiment, and the other 2 seem a bit kind of nonplused by it. 125 00:12:23.220 --> 00:12:26.639 Guys, you know, you know what we should get them to do? 126 00:12:26.700 --> 00:12:28.559 Yeah, we should get them to do. 127 00:12:28.620 --> 00:12:30.240 I'm going to ask him. 128 00:12:30.299 --> 00:12:31.019 I'm going to ask him. 129 00:12:31.080 --> 00:12:32.279 Let's see what they say. 130 00:12:32.340 --> 00:12:35.519 When a huge camera comes from the ceiling to film it and everything. 131 00:12:36.659 --> 00:12:39.600 It does sort of come out of nowhere then, doesn't it? 132 00:12:39.659 --> 00:12:41.220 It's one of those things. 133 00:12:41.279 --> 00:12:53.340 It would be nice if it's kind of ceded, no pun intended earlier, you know, just so just some kind of foreshadowing that they're kind of doing full lifecycle studies on people. 134 00:12:53.399 --> 00:13:00.840 It feels like a bit of a weird left turn that then kind of allows them to escape. 135 00:13:00.960 --> 00:13:07.620 But yeah, it's one of the parts of the episode I remembered before going is, oh yeah, this is that one, you know. 136 00:13:07.679 --> 00:13:08.399 So yeah. 137 00:13:08.460 --> 00:13:13.860 So, you know, it stays with you, but I kind of, yeah, it does kind of leap out of nowhere. 138 00:13:13.980 --> 00:13:16.080 But I do love it, though. 139 00:13:16.139 --> 00:13:25.500 Yeah, oh, because Dana and Tarant use it as a ruse to escape, which again is really, it's really lucky they got asked to do it. 140 00:13:25.559 --> 00:13:26.879 So they could do it. 141 00:13:26.940 --> 00:13:30.779 But when they throw the little grenady thing and blow the hole in the wall. 142 00:13:30.840 --> 00:13:34.259 That little jump that the ultras do, I just think is fantastic. 143 00:13:34.320 --> 00:13:35.700 It's like, yeah. 144 00:13:36.299 --> 00:13:38.519 Was that part of the bonding ceremony? 145 00:13:38.580 --> 00:13:40.259 You know, it's like... 146 00:13:40.259 --> 00:13:41.879 It's such a brilliant line. 147 00:13:43.139 --> 00:13:44.940 Did the earth move? 148 00:13:45.000 --> 00:13:46.440 It's also their thing. 149 00:13:46.500 --> 00:13:50.039 They try to say, you know, this is adult science fiction. going to have sex. 150 00:13:50.220 --> 00:13:52.559 Yeah, that must be cursed. 151 00:13:52.559 --> 00:13:53.639 I would have loved it. 152 00:13:53.700 --> 00:13:55.980 He would have he would have absolutely loved it. 153 00:13:56.039 --> 00:13:59.100 Do you always keep a grenade in your filling, my dear? 154 00:13:59.159 --> 00:14:01.679 Oh, that is actually a grenade in your Okay we're getting out. 155 00:14:01.740 --> 00:14:02.279 All right, fine. 156 00:14:02.399 --> 00:14:05.639 There are some really witty lines in this. 157 00:14:05.700 --> 00:14:12.539 Like another one that struck me is when Dana and Tarrant find out that they're feeding bodies into this brain. 158 00:14:12.539 --> 00:14:14.700 And Terence says, it's food for thought. 159 00:14:14.759 --> 00:14:19.500 And then realises it's food for food, it's food for a brain. 160 00:14:19.559 --> 00:14:22.019 And it's like, that's actually really clever. 161 00:14:22.080 --> 00:14:29.399 So like Trevor Hoyle, I think, only writes this episode that he has been writing the novelisations up until this point. 162 00:14:29.460 --> 00:14:33.360 So it's no surprise to me that he gets some really good character moments in there. 163 00:14:33.720 --> 00:14:36.059 I know that line down as well. 164 00:14:36.120 --> 00:14:37.740 That was a really good one. 165 00:14:37.799 --> 00:14:42.360 And so Dane hadn't previously revealed that she keeps explosives in her teeth, had she? 166 00:14:42.419 --> 00:14:48.539 That's, we've, the kamikaze cybermat returns, which we saw in, was that city at the edge of the world? 167 00:14:48.600 --> 00:14:50.279 So it's good to see that again. 168 00:14:50.279 --> 00:14:55.620 But then, yeah, the I mean, she must eat very tentatively, I would imagine. 169 00:14:55.679 --> 00:14:59.820 And then she only puts it in for when she teleports down. 170 00:14:59.879 --> 00:15:13.320 It is one of those slight sort of Roger Moore buzz saw wristwatch moments, which, you know, if they'd set up, you know, seeded it throughout the entire series that, you know, she never says yes to a gobstopper. 171 00:15:13.379 --> 00:15:14.100 What's that about? 172 00:15:14.159 --> 00:15:15.720 You know, or something, you know. 173 00:15:18.360 --> 00:15:23.220 But yeah, it gets them out of the spot though. you know, but It does. 174 00:15:23.279 --> 00:15:23.759 Yeah. 175 00:15:23.879 --> 00:15:39.659 Something I wondered, though, at the beginning, like, they know they're teleporting down into hostile territory, and they teleport down, and then Avon and Tarant turn around, and I just kind of think, why not teleport in facing in different directions to start with? 176 00:15:39.659 --> 00:15:52.679 Oh, because it looks cool, because you've got Dana, Dana standing in the middle, and she remains motionless in this really cool pose, and they both do the kind of the bonds down the gun barrel thing the other way. 177 00:15:52.740 --> 00:15:54.360 I think because it looks cool. 178 00:15:54.419 --> 00:16:01.500 I do wonder, yeah, do they do they ever like just, you know, secretly rehearse these back up on the Liberator in their spare. 179 00:16:01.559 --> 00:16:02.639 How are we going to land this time? 180 00:16:02.639 --> 00:16:07.980 Because it'd be, that was a really lovely image of them in the tunnel and, you know. 181 00:16:08.039 --> 00:16:11.220 But remind me, why do they go down at all? 182 00:16:11.279 --> 00:16:12.840 pure curiosity? 183 00:16:12.899 --> 00:16:15.120 Well, they're chasing Kelly? 184 00:16:15.179 --> 00:16:16.200 Oh, that's right. 185 00:16:16.259 --> 00:16:16.620 Yeah, yeah. 186 00:16:16.679 --> 00:16:19.259 She's constantly says, I don't know where I am. 187 00:16:19.320 --> 00:16:21.000 And then everyone keeps saying, Kelly, where are you? 188 00:16:21.059 --> 00:16:23.399 And I just, she just said she doesn't know where she is. 189 00:16:24.419 --> 00:16:28.379 I think that's what takes it away from Star Trek, isn't it? 190 00:16:28.440 --> 00:16:32.100 There's none of that kind of, you know, to discover motivation going on. 191 00:16:32.159 --> 00:16:32.820 Yeah. 192 00:16:32.879 --> 00:16:50.399 Well, I think in this series as a whole, the motivation for the crew is something I've kind of noticed, because the 1st 2 series, Blake is wanting to smash the Federation, and now that the Federation isn't the power that it was, and none of the characters have that sort of steely determination to absolutely crush it. 193 00:16:50.460 --> 00:16:54.059 They're just sort of doing whatever comes along that week, aren't they? 194 00:16:54.120 --> 00:16:59.460 And it's, yeah, it's just whatever they bump into or maybe they'll do a heist or whatever. 195 00:16:59.519 --> 00:17:04.380 And I think that is something that may be slightly lacking for me compared to the previous 2 series. 196 00:17:04.440 --> 00:17:18.779 There are little things I like, though, just simply that, um, once again, Avon betrays a fact, he doesn't leave people behind, if, you know, he's just one of those characters who is forever trying to hide from everyone that he cares. 197 00:17:18.779 --> 00:17:30.660 Because, you know, if you if you tortured it out of him, that he's actually, you know, essentially, I think a decent person living in the absolute worst version of future, that's what makes him so fantastic. 198 00:17:30.720 --> 00:17:33.000 But yeah, he is a wonderful character. 199 00:17:33.059 --> 00:17:43.859 He's got so much depth, but I am missing either Blake or Servolan to kind of be the other comparably fascinating central characters of the series. 200 00:17:43.920 --> 00:17:44.700 Yeah. 201 00:17:44.759 --> 00:17:45.299 Yeah. 202 00:17:45.480 --> 00:17:51.720 Something I really enjoyed about that 1st scene is the discussion about why to go there. 203 00:17:51.839 --> 00:17:54.599 And of course, because we don't have the story arc anymore. 204 00:17:54.660 --> 00:18:00.839 It's a bit difficult sometimes getting into the plot, but everyone contributes to that conversation. 205 00:18:00.900 --> 00:18:30.299 And while they disagree, it's not an argument, like if you look at the beginning of city on the edge of the world, which is terrific, Avon, Villa, Tarrant, are all really annoyed with each other, and we so often see that at the beginning of a Blake 7 story, whereas here, it's an intellectual discussion with disagreements, and eventually they're like, oh, okay, we'll go in and be safe. 206 00:18:30.359 --> 00:18:40.559 And then when it all goes wrong, Dana and Tarrant persuade Avon to go down there and it's believable that they would actually take that risk. 207 00:18:40.619 --> 00:18:47.400 I really like it and I feel it's different to how we've gotten into some of the plots before this series. 208 00:18:47.460 --> 00:18:51.180 Yeah, entirely think that that's entirely correct for me. 209 00:18:51.240 --> 00:18:55.799 I was really, really loving that the way that discussion unfolded. 210 00:18:55.859 --> 00:19:04.740 Also, the way that all the characters have their own differences, which are part of the brief, like someone's read the character summaries when they've written this episode. 211 00:19:04.799 --> 00:19:09.480 But they're not over the top either, as Brendan is you're saying, they're not just having a shouting match. 212 00:19:09.539 --> 00:19:15.900 It all has a very nice and sensible and adult progression to it. 213 00:19:15.900 --> 00:19:17.039 And that was very appealing. 214 00:19:17.099 --> 00:19:22.259 That's one of the reasons why you kind of captured that actual scene that you're talking about kind of captured my attention from the get go. 215 00:19:22.319 --> 00:19:28.019 That's why I kind of got drawn into the episode. like, ooh, I think I'm going to like this because of the tone that was set by that saying. 216 00:19:28.079 --> 00:19:43.259 It's interesting the way it flips as well from Avon wanting to investigate Ultra World and everyone else being cautious to when it comes to teleporting down, Avon's the one who's cautious and everybody else is saying, no, let's, you know, gung-ho, let's get in there. 217 00:19:44.940 --> 00:19:51.180 It's a Cali Light episode, in a way, with John Chaplin being unconscious for most of the episode. 218 00:19:51.240 --> 00:19:55.019 And I know it's the 2nd week in a row that Cali has been psychically compromised. 219 00:19:55.079 --> 00:19:59.099 In Doctor Who, when Sarah Jane was possessed in 2 consecutive stories. 220 00:19:59.160 --> 00:20:02.339 The doctor dropped her off with an excuse about visiting Gallifrey. 221 00:20:02.400 --> 00:20:04.799 Do you think that Cali has also become a liability? 222 00:20:07.680 --> 00:20:14.460 I did note down, we've just had sarcophagus, why does no one notice she's acting weird? 223 00:20:14.519 --> 00:20:18.180 And then Avon says, did anyone notice that she was acting weird? 224 00:20:18.240 --> 00:20:20.339 It's like, you didn't mention this 8 hours ago? 225 00:20:20.400 --> 00:20:22.380 You just went, let's all go to bed. 226 00:20:25.500 --> 00:20:28.980 It's a shame really, because sarcophagus is so brilliant. 227 00:20:29.039 --> 00:20:33.180 So it's entirely understandable that it's like, okay, Jan, you're going to be in the background next week. 228 00:20:33.240 --> 00:20:38.400 But at the same time, it's like, oh, it's another episode where Callie is taken over and takes the ship somewhere. 229 00:20:38.460 --> 00:20:40.500 I think, what is this now? 230 00:20:40.619 --> 00:20:41.160 7 of those? 231 00:20:41.400 --> 00:20:44.220 Well, she doesn't really take the ship somewhere. 232 00:20:44.279 --> 00:20:45.960 She just is the impetus for why the crew go down. 233 00:20:46.079 --> 00:20:47.640 True, true. 234 00:20:47.700 --> 00:20:48.240 That is true. 235 00:20:48.299 --> 00:20:49.319 To be fair. 236 00:20:49.380 --> 00:20:50.640 To be fair. 237 00:20:50.759 --> 00:20:58.680 I think that is a good creepy moment when it shows you the the communicator, the the red bracelet sort of rotating and it's not her speaking. 238 00:20:58.740 --> 00:21:03.660 It really intrigues you to see, you know, what has happened to him, what is going to happen next. 239 00:21:03.720 --> 00:21:11.880 Yeah, I think if you look at this episode in isolation, which is how I tended to catch them on telly back in, you know, probably 20 years ago or something. 240 00:21:11.940 --> 00:21:13.079 It's fine. 241 00:21:13.140 --> 00:21:17.039 When you watch them in order, these things really do start to leap out. 242 00:21:17.099 --> 00:21:20.099 But it is quite a, it's not a small cast, is it? 243 00:21:20.160 --> 00:21:23.940 It's Avon Cali, Tarant Zen villa Aurak, Dana. 244 00:21:24.000 --> 00:21:27.000 That is a lot of people to juggle in 50 minutes. 245 00:21:27.059 --> 00:21:33.900 So I kind of, I'm, I am kind of sympathetic to the desire to, you know, background someone an episode. 246 00:21:34.140 --> 00:21:38.519 But yeah, it does feel a bit unfair to kind of pick on Callie, though. 247 00:21:38.579 --> 00:21:46.980 It might actually, you know, have been more interesting or something you could do in a different episode is do the same thing to Avon. 248 00:21:47.039 --> 00:21:51.480 Just take Avon out of the equation. and then. right in the streets there. 249 00:21:52.019 --> 00:21:53.759 Exactly, exactly. 250 00:21:53.819 --> 00:22:05.339 But then, but then, you know, that that vacuum might kind of be be helpful to the other characters and kind of, you know, well, let's let's use everyone else who isn't Avon to the full. 251 00:22:05.460 --> 00:22:13.500 Yeah, with such a large, large regular cast that makes sense as they do in Star Trek, you have various characters who don't feature in particular episodes. 252 00:22:13.559 --> 00:22:20.460 It's just the problem is it's like that each episode is written in isolation without a consideration is to getting some kind of overall balance in that. 253 00:22:20.579 --> 00:22:27.359 And that's why I'm loath to criticise a particular episode for being the one that has... 254 00:22:27.420 --> 00:22:29.039 Yes, yeah. is what you're saying. 255 00:22:29.099 --> 00:22:29.880 Yeah. 256 00:22:29.880 --> 00:23:01.319 I kind of think because Blake 7 is just, you know, it has so much potential to be complex with all these different relationships and these really deep characters, some of them, from a writing point of view, if one were to do it now, not just because this is the way television is made now, but to keep a really tight handle on everyone, you know, doing it, it's like an 8 part miniseries is probably the best way to make sure you're kind of using all your characters correctly that everyone's firing on all and being who they're meant to be. 257 00:23:01.380 --> 00:23:14.339 But as you say, writing, you know, doing this many a season and uh, and have them essentially sort of written in isolation does kind of lend itself to a certain drift, I think. 258 00:23:14.400 --> 00:23:18.359 Um, and I think Siri sees a little bit guilty of that. 259 00:23:18.420 --> 00:23:22.980 But like I said, I think we're just, we're a long, we're a long way from the initial premise in a way. 260 00:23:23.099 --> 00:23:24.000 We are. 261 00:23:24.720 --> 00:23:28.079 Which is which is fine. that's what TV can do. 262 00:23:28.140 --> 00:23:31.799 But I think it's interesting you talk about the initial premise. 263 00:23:31.859 --> 00:23:41.460 It's like, it's like the initial premises of, of, you know, character summaries is that there's a couple of paragraphs written to say who a character is and where they're from and who their parents are and whatever the hell it is. 264 00:23:41.519 --> 00:23:46.500 And then that's used in the 1st episode, maybe the 2nd and then it's kind of forgotten. 265 00:23:46.559 --> 00:23:48.900 Although every now and again it rears its head. 266 00:23:48.960 --> 00:23:54.900 And I think that's what sort of happens to the original premise of Blake 7 is especially when Blake departs the scene. 267 00:23:54.960 --> 00:23:56.759 It's like, well, why are we really all here? 268 00:23:56.819 --> 00:23:58.079 You know, we're just kind of continuing. 269 00:23:58.140 --> 00:24:04.140 And but I actually think that's actually, for me, what's appealing about series C. 270 00:24:04.200 --> 00:24:18.059 I actually think that this is the strongest that the series is the strongest that the series is in the 4 years that it does, partly because it's not trying to It's not trying to tell a bigger story. 271 00:24:18.119 --> 00:24:20.339 It just, it's just is each week. 272 00:24:20.400 --> 00:24:24.119 And I think there is, there is something about that. 273 00:24:24.180 --> 00:24:27.359 I think when we're talking about those kind of arcs and all that sort of stuff. 274 00:24:27.420 --> 00:24:36.359 We're talking about it through a sort of a 21st century lens and I don't think that's the sort of thing that was, they had concerns concerns about 40 something years ago. 275 00:24:36.420 --> 00:24:39.299 Whenever this was done, you know, 45 years ago. 276 00:24:39.480 --> 00:24:43.259 43, 43, I was too old. 277 00:24:43.259 --> 00:24:44.039 I do beg your pardon. 278 00:24:44.099 --> 00:24:46.259 I was 2 months old when this one came out. 279 00:24:46.619 --> 00:24:50.819 Oh, gosh, you were a youngster. how old were you when this came out? 280 00:24:51.180 --> 00:24:54.660 Um, I was not bored. 281 00:24:54.660 --> 00:24:56.819 By Sargent. 282 00:24:56.880 --> 00:24:57.539 Yes, exactly. 283 00:24:57.660 --> 00:24:58.079 Yeah. 284 00:24:58.140 --> 00:25:02.339 My, my, uh, so I don't have a Blake 7 horoscope. 285 00:25:02.400 --> 00:25:12.119 It was gone by the time I came along, but my Doctor Who horoscope, depending on how you look at it, is either the 5 doctors or repeat of terror of the Zygons, because Australia just endlessly. 286 00:25:13.380 --> 00:25:13.859 Yes, yes. 287 00:25:20.819 --> 00:25:28.380 But yeah, you're right, but this is a really fun. standalone episode of the Flex 7. 288 00:25:28.440 --> 00:25:29.640 And that's. 289 00:25:29.700 --> 00:25:30.660 And that's very refreshing for me. 290 00:25:30.720 --> 00:25:34.380 Like, I'm just sick of just sick of all of these arcs and things. 291 00:25:34.380 --> 00:25:39.119 I just want to, I just want to sit down 50 minutes and watch something where, which has a beginning and middle and an end. 292 00:25:39.180 --> 00:25:41.039 You can press stop and you go, well, that was that. 293 00:25:41.099 --> 00:25:43.859 And it doesn't matter whether I watch it completely out of sequence for the others. 294 00:25:43.920 --> 00:25:45.299 I mean, as you were saying before, Rob. 295 00:25:45.359 --> 00:25:49.259 Like, you know, you saw this probably out of sequence. 296 00:25:49.319 --> 00:25:49.740 Oh, totally. 297 00:25:49.799 --> 00:25:50.279 Yeah, yeah. 298 00:25:50.339 --> 00:25:51.420 Yeah, yeah. 299 00:25:51.480 --> 00:25:51.660 Yeah. 300 00:25:51.720 --> 00:26:08.039 I mean, this was one of the ones that I sort of picked up because you sort of see the, you saw the ones that were on those VHS compilation tapes and there are a couple of other episodes that we had floating around in our broader group of friends, but this was one of the ones that I only saw after all of the VHSs came out and you could actually see them all from go to whoa. 301 00:26:08.099 --> 00:26:10.859 So maybe it appeals for that reason. 302 00:26:10.920 --> 00:26:13.559 It was one of the kind of the missing episodes for a while. 303 00:26:13.619 --> 00:26:15.660 It wasn't the one that anyone had access to. 304 00:26:15.720 --> 00:26:26.880 Do we think that they should have swapped personalities between Avon and Callie at the end of the episode and maybe had a couple of episodes of them trying to swap them back? 305 00:26:26.940 --> 00:26:28.380 Would that have worked? 306 00:26:28.440 --> 00:26:30.299 Oh, that would have been fun. 307 00:26:30.420 --> 00:26:34.319 I think Paul Darrow would have had a lot of fun playing Cali. 308 00:26:34.859 --> 00:26:41.400 I'm not sure whether Jan Chappell would have enjoyed that performance by Baldera. 309 00:26:41.460 --> 00:26:49.319 I did wonder, and I thought this was something that was going to happen, was to sell it, whether we would see Avon or Kelly on the screen. 310 00:26:49.380 --> 00:26:59.880 You know, like when Tarrant finds the that sort of data cylinder to begin with, and he slots into the desk and the guy's that his memories pop up on the screen so he can interact with him. 311 00:26:59.940 --> 00:27:12.480 I thought maybe that would have sold the idea that their their minds had been removed and were now stored in those sort of perspects, cylinders, whether that does something, watching it as a 1st time. 312 00:27:12.480 --> 00:27:14.279 Yeah. that would have happened. 313 00:27:14.339 --> 00:27:21.000 And maybe Avon then could have talked Tarrant through the process of reversing it, you know, kind of say as the as the computer expert. 314 00:27:21.059 --> 00:27:22.799 Well, yeah, that's a nice idea. 315 00:27:22.859 --> 00:27:23.220 Yeah, yeah. 316 00:27:23.279 --> 00:27:26.339 But a little extra squeeze of the lemon. 317 00:27:26.400 --> 00:27:27.000 Just, yeah. 318 00:27:27.420 --> 00:27:33.839 Yeah, I thought we might have been going in a similar direction with Callie being a telepath because they make a big deal. 319 00:27:33.960 --> 00:27:40.079 The 3 ultras make a big deal about Cali being a telepath and we don't see telepaths very often. 320 00:27:40.140 --> 00:27:45.420 So I thought Callie's telepathy would would do something there, but unfortunately not. 321 00:27:45.480 --> 00:27:49.799 Yeah, I like that, I like that phrase, Robert, another squeeze of the lemon. 322 00:27:49.859 --> 00:27:52.619 It's like the fish and chips are lovely. very much. 323 00:27:52.740 --> 00:27:54.480 Put a bit of lemon on. 324 00:27:54.539 --> 00:27:58.740 I did also notice with those with those personality tubes or whatever they are. 325 00:27:58.859 --> 00:28:04.559 Um, they're sort of coloured like a um, like a, like a fancy cocktail. 326 00:28:04.619 --> 00:28:10.319 So I've written down here Ralph, whose whose thing is blue and purple. 327 00:28:10.380 --> 00:28:12.420 It's he's kind of like a fruit tingle. 328 00:28:12.480 --> 00:28:19.500 I don't know if any of you have ever had a fruit tingle cocktail, or if it's a uniquely Western suburbs of Sydney experience. 329 00:28:19.559 --> 00:28:26.039 But, um, yeah, and I think later on Avon is a tequila sunrise. like he's sort of orange and yellow. 330 00:28:27.720 --> 00:28:30.599 But it's like, I'm sure I'm sure they had. 331 00:28:30.660 --> 00:28:37.920 I'm sure they had these these fruity drinks, so I wonder if that was that was the designer going, okay, everyone's a cocktail. 332 00:28:38.039 --> 00:28:40.500 Oh, there is one tracking shot. 333 00:28:40.559 --> 00:28:42.420 I love near the end when they're escaping. 334 00:28:42.480 --> 00:28:46.920 It's just, it's down the corridor with just all the corpses, just lit red. 335 00:28:46.980 --> 00:28:49.680 It's like, this is this is Blake 7. 336 00:28:49.740 --> 00:29:03.599 Yeah, it's, it's a hot, this is a terrible, sad sack universe they live in and uh, yeah, there is a, there's a body count and people don't get saved and our heroes only ever get away by the skin of their teeth. 337 00:29:03.660 --> 00:29:08.279 And yeah, maybe they could have saved more people, but yeah, they didn't. 338 00:29:09.240 --> 00:29:12.539 They didn't because probably they didn't actually care about saving the others. 339 00:29:12.660 --> 00:29:17.220 I mean, I think that's the difference is that, yeah, they just give us stuff about all of these people. 340 00:29:17.279 --> 00:29:25.680 I mean, yeah, because all that needed actually is as a kind of a get out of jail thing was for them, someone to say, oh, they've been absorbed for more than so long. 341 00:29:25.740 --> 00:29:27.299 Therefore, it's impossible to extract them. 342 00:29:27.420 --> 00:29:30.839 You just need that as a line. 343 00:29:30.900 --> 00:29:34.740 But I think it's very Blake 7 to say we don't even care that there's such a reason. 344 00:29:34.799 --> 00:29:40.619 Yeah, and that tracking shot has a kind of a mood of almost rebuke to it in a way. 345 00:29:40.680 --> 00:29:47.880 Literally, you know, and these are the dead people. yeah Yeah, it's almost like, you know, the show is saying, yeah, maybe they could have saved them, but they didn't. 346 00:29:47.940 --> 00:29:50.279 I think it's kind of it's there almost, I think. 347 00:29:50.339 --> 00:29:51.960 They didn't even try. 348 00:29:52.019 --> 00:29:52.799 Yeah, yeah. 349 00:29:52.859 --> 00:29:55.980 What do we think of the ultras themselves, the 3 ultras? 350 00:29:56.039 --> 00:29:59.880 As a kid, I would have been terrified of them, I think. 351 00:29:59.940 --> 00:30:07.799 Uh, proper non-cozy, creepy, late 70s, BBC, sci-fi weirdos. 352 00:30:09.000 --> 00:30:09.900 Yeah. 353 00:30:09.960 --> 00:30:11.279 I like them. 354 00:30:11.339 --> 00:30:15.779 They're memorable and strange. 355 00:30:15.779 --> 00:30:27.960 It's one of those things where, you know, if looking at this as a standalone episode, they're very Star Trek, it's their trek entities, the kind of people that, you know, an away team could quite reasonably meet. 356 00:30:28.079 --> 00:30:44.339 If you're looking at Blake 7 as an ongoing thing, they don't feel like the kind of people that Blake 7 would concern themselves with usually because they're not part of that kind of fascist empire versus rebels discourse in a way. 357 00:30:44.400 --> 00:30:47.279 They're outside of it and their own thing seemingly. 358 00:30:47.339 --> 00:30:49.619 But yeah, no, they're good. 359 00:30:49.680 --> 00:30:51.779 Yeah, trek monsters in a way. 360 00:30:51.839 --> 00:31:03.240 I did like how they, um, it's one thing they mentioned in the beginning is that the plantary mass of earth is quite common, and I think, and that was just a nice way of the show explaining why so many different planets look like quarries. 361 00:31:03.299 --> 00:31:05.579 It was just kind of like, there's little... 362 00:31:05.579 --> 00:31:09.539 I think that was to do with the... 363 00:31:09.599 --> 00:31:12.660 That's probably even more important, but yes, yeah. 364 00:31:12.779 --> 00:31:14.880 Yeah, well, that's the thing. 365 00:31:14.940 --> 00:31:21.420 They say we've encountered 1000000s of species and all their menials look like human bank managers, you know. 366 00:31:21.420 --> 00:31:24.240 Yeah, there is a look. 367 00:31:25.319 --> 00:31:31.799 But, I mean, it's kind of funny that the look of a lot of them is similar to the ultras themselves. 368 00:31:31.859 --> 00:31:34.140 They're all sort of bald men. 369 00:31:34.200 --> 00:31:39.059 Not every single one of them, but a lot of them are, including Ralph, who's the main one. 370 00:31:39.119 --> 00:31:43.319 Do you think they've asked them all to have a girt the old bonding ceremony? 371 00:31:43.319 --> 00:31:48.599 Or is it just a brand new thing for Dana and Tara? 372 00:31:48.660 --> 00:31:49.799 There are no female menials. 373 00:31:49.859 --> 00:31:52.680 No, well, it doesn't, it's probably, you know, Oh, yeah, here we are. 374 00:31:52.740 --> 00:31:55.500 Item 12 on the old questionnaire, right. 375 00:31:55.559 --> 00:31:59.099 Now, here, can you just have a, give a, give a go. 376 00:31:59.160 --> 00:32:01.079 We'll see, you know, we are we are filming. 377 00:32:01.140 --> 00:32:11.759 You know, we can put on some, I don't know, Al Green or Marvin Gaye or, you know, a bit there for you or something, bit of, you know, French turn of the century electronica, and see what happens. you know. 378 00:32:11.819 --> 00:32:13.680 I like to think they did, yeah. 379 00:32:13.740 --> 00:32:21.960 Yeah, I think Ultra one has sort of hit his 5th century and that's when you start getting a bit of adventurous in the ultra world and he's become a bit of a voyeur. 380 00:32:22.019 --> 00:32:24.599 That's why the other 2 are like, oh, God, snake. 381 00:32:24.839 --> 00:32:27.059 They're in their 6th century. 382 00:32:27.119 --> 00:32:35.700 They've done that You think you understand that they're kind of this kind of possibly some weird alien gestolt thing. 383 00:32:35.759 --> 00:32:41.700 And then the bonding ritual request thing happens and suddenly I don't understand them again. 384 00:32:41.759 --> 00:32:44.640 It's like, this is a bit of motivation I wasn't expecting. 385 00:32:44.700 --> 00:32:51.180 So that kind of, that actually, that bit does actually throw me slightly as to what they're about and what they're like. 386 00:32:51.240 --> 00:33:01.079 Um, but yeah, they're they are definitely a memorable uh, uh, set of characters for uh, Siri, C, though. 387 00:33:01.140 --> 00:33:02.700 I approve. 388 00:33:02.759 --> 00:33:04.140 Yeah, do we know the actors? 389 00:33:04.259 --> 00:33:14.099 Because I was trying to place the actors sometimes and I felt that their performances were actually really, really good is and they weren't, they were kind of being mysterious and silly enough without chewing the scenery. 390 00:33:14.160 --> 00:33:17.880 I was really happy with that the level that they were pitching the performance at. 391 00:33:17.940 --> 00:33:22.799 Yeah, it's Peter Richards, Stephen Jen, and Ian Barrett. 392 00:33:22.799 --> 00:33:28.380 And I think, yeah, I think they were casting bald actors. 393 00:33:28.440 --> 00:33:35.220 I think one of them may have shaved their head for it and one refused, which is why one of them... like one of them's wearing a cap, yeah. 394 00:33:35.279 --> 00:33:35.640 Yeah. 395 00:33:35.700 --> 00:33:48.599 So Ian Barrett, who is, I think, the one who doesn't have his hair cut at the sides, is Professor Peach in Doctor Who and the Unicorn and the Wasp. 396 00:33:49.200 --> 00:33:51.900 Somewhat after this episode. 397 00:33:52.019 --> 00:33:54.359 Somewhat after this episode was filmed. 398 00:33:55.380 --> 00:33:58.380 But yeah, he's regularly been in work. 399 00:33:58.440 --> 00:33:59.339 He's still working. 400 00:33:59.400 --> 00:34:02.519 He's just done an episode of Doctors this year. 401 00:34:02.759 --> 00:34:06.960 Stephen Jen, who I believe, is Ultra 2. 402 00:34:07.140 --> 00:34:08.039 Which one's Ultra 2. 403 00:34:08.219 --> 00:34:17.099 So I think he's the one in the middle with the so not the main ultra and not the one with the sort of 1980 Patrick Stewart cut. 404 00:34:17.159 --> 00:34:18.360 So the one in the middle. 405 00:34:18.420 --> 00:34:19.199 Okay. 406 00:34:19.260 --> 00:34:22.440 Uh, is navigator Seca. 407 00:34:22.500 --> 00:34:23.579 Nightmare of Eaton. 408 00:34:23.639 --> 00:34:24.480 Okay. 409 00:34:24.480 --> 00:34:25.079 The drug edit. 410 00:34:25.199 --> 00:34:26.460 I was looking for someone more. 411 00:34:26.519 --> 00:34:27.300 It doesn't matter. 412 00:34:27.360 --> 00:34:27.780 That's fine. 413 00:34:27.900 --> 00:34:29.039 Thank you for that. 414 00:34:29.039 --> 00:34:33.960 They felt... 415 00:34:34.019 --> 00:34:35.099 Maybe that was just the idea. 416 00:34:35.159 --> 00:34:36.780 Yes, yes, yes, yes. 417 00:34:36.840 --> 00:34:42.840 I want to be with Nathan when he listens to this episode so I can hold him back while you slag off the nightmare of either. 418 00:34:45.300 --> 00:34:48.659 You wanted something more. 419 00:34:48.659 --> 00:34:52.860 I was just wanting a more substantial character that I could, you know... 420 00:34:52.860 --> 00:34:55.860 However, if you're asking me to start off, I'm very happy to. 421 00:35:03.659 --> 00:35:12.059 There are some great moments where something is seen, like, Callie being dormant with all the other people in the rack things, whatever they're hanging from. 422 00:35:12.119 --> 00:35:13.860 And then you sort of cut briefly to another sequence. 423 00:35:13.920 --> 00:35:21.239 And then we cut back and we've moved forward enough in time to avoid the tediousness of getting her out and whatever else is happening to go on. 424 00:35:21.300 --> 00:35:23.699 And those are the sort of things that would inevitably look rubbish. 425 00:35:23.820 --> 00:35:38.880 So I think that those are the sort of decisions which are made in the making of this. and whether that's a writing decision or a directing decision or a production decision or whatever it is, those are the sort of decisions which for me make it all hang together better and avoids those sort of bits that inevitably are shit. 426 00:35:38.940 --> 00:35:52.320 Yeah, I suppose if we'd actually seen bodies growing into the green, that wouldn't have looked good either, but we see them going into the feeding tube and we see the brain sort of grotesquely expanding and throbbing and everything. 427 00:35:52.320 --> 00:35:56.340 And we get, we immediately get that they're being digested somehow. 428 00:35:56.400 --> 00:35:56.639 Yeah. 429 00:35:56.699 --> 00:36:00.420 It's wonderfully disturbing when you see the bodies just go in. 430 00:36:00.480 --> 00:36:01.559 It's, yeah. 431 00:36:01.619 --> 00:36:02.519 Yes. 432 00:36:02.579 --> 00:36:05.880 And the same thing when they when they kill the 2 ultras towards the end. 433 00:36:05.940 --> 00:36:07.800 It's a bit strange. 434 00:36:07.860 --> 00:36:12.300 It's kind of, it's a killing that happens off camera, even though you're in the room when it happens. 435 00:36:12.300 --> 00:36:21.659 And it's almost like, I mean, maybe it's probably because there's a missing shot or they ran out of time or whatever the hell it was, but I still find it very effective way of covering that moment. 436 00:36:21.719 --> 00:36:27.840 Yeah, that moment looked like it was cut for violence because, and also there's a, it looks like it was. 437 00:36:27.900 --> 00:36:30.539 I have no idea whether they filmed it. 438 00:36:30.599 --> 00:36:37.199 But there isn't, there's something about the way Avon delivers his line to Tarrant there. 439 00:36:37.260 --> 00:36:40.380 It's something like finished or happy now or something like that. 440 00:36:40.440 --> 00:36:43.440 So it's like, what did Tarrant do? 441 00:36:43.800 --> 00:36:45.480 Precisely. 442 00:36:45.539 --> 00:36:49.800 Because there's a distaste on Avon's part. 443 00:36:49.860 --> 00:36:53.880 And I feel it feels like... 444 00:36:53.940 --> 00:36:54.480 Yeah. 445 00:36:54.539 --> 00:37:10.980 Oh, he did something possibly needlessly sadistic that, yeah, it's again one of those little things, those little clues you get that Avon is a decent man desperately trying to hide his decency from the universe. 446 00:37:10.980 --> 00:37:12.900 And Tarant is not. 447 00:37:12.960 --> 00:37:13.440 Yeah. 448 00:37:13.500 --> 00:37:16.800 But he's very witty about the way he chooses to hide his decency, I find. 449 00:37:16.860 --> 00:37:19.380 So that's makes him, you know, all the more entertaining. 450 00:37:19.440 --> 00:37:29.219 It's to do with the fact that really, essentially, he is your kind of classic wounded romantic hero. 451 00:37:29.280 --> 00:37:34.380 But he does not, you know, he does everything he can to not seem to be that. 452 00:37:34.440 --> 00:37:41.639 I mean, it's actually quite a stock character, but the way he's dressed up and just the layers he's got. 453 00:37:41.880 --> 00:37:47.280 Not to mention Paul Darrow's performance, but just conceptually, he is just, he's such a, he's such a good character. 454 00:37:47.340 --> 00:37:55.019 And one thing I like about him and Tarrant is that, um, Tarrant is, uh, is none of those things. 455 00:37:55.079 --> 00:37:59.219 Tarrant is not, Terence, Terence not someone you want on your side. 456 00:37:59.219 --> 00:38:03.480 And, uh, I think in in that moment where he kills those 2 ultras. 457 00:38:03.539 --> 00:38:13.019 I kind of suspect, have we were we just robbed of one possibly really horrible but really great character moment just to just to remind us of the differences between these 2 bastards? 458 00:38:13.079 --> 00:38:13.440 Yeah. 459 00:38:13.619 --> 00:38:15.000 Yeah. 460 00:38:15.300 --> 00:38:32.280 But again, that's another one of the things I love about Blake 7 is that, you know, I like the, you know, I like the revisionist Westerns and stuff like, you know, the dirty dozen and, you know, these difficult, problematic, unpleasant people. 461 00:38:32.340 --> 00:38:41.400 But I'm a sucker for when you discover that actually, no, despite all evidence to the contrary, that guy's actually a secret good one. 462 00:38:41.460 --> 00:38:44.039 And yeah, able's a secret good one, you know. 463 00:38:44.099 --> 00:38:54.780 Yeah, the wonderful thing about fan discussions and fan readings of all these things is it means when fans get to write the official product. 464 00:38:54.840 --> 00:39:00.300 We get those character moments that have existed for us for many years. 465 00:39:00.300 --> 00:39:16.079 And you, Rob, would know that more than any of this, I think, but I've spoken before on the show about how much I really enjoy the Blake 7 big finish stories, which get extra time with those characters, but it totally squares with what the actors were doing in 1980. 466 00:39:16.260 --> 00:39:21.719 Yeah, it's not unlike with a photograph, you know, especially analogue photography. 467 00:39:21.780 --> 00:39:25.860 There's far more data in the picture than the human I can see, but it's there. 468 00:39:25.920 --> 00:39:32.880 You know, and if you, you know, you look at things in different resolutions, you know, in different filters. you can draw different stuff out. 469 00:39:32.940 --> 00:39:36.780 But it's, but it's already there to be, to be mined. 470 00:39:36.780 --> 00:39:37.559 And yeah. 471 00:39:37.679 --> 00:39:38.699 Yeah. 472 00:39:38.699 --> 00:39:52.199 And that's, again, it's another reason why Blake 7 is so damn good is there is so much built-in and present conflict drama layers, whether or not a particular episode chooses to explore them. 473 00:39:52.320 --> 00:39:56.579 It's so rich and it's all, it is all there to be taken out and played with. 474 00:39:56.639 --> 00:39:58.440 And then, yeah, put back. 475 00:39:58.500 --> 00:40:00.059 But yeah, chuffing Lovett for that reason. 476 00:40:00.119 --> 00:40:01.260 It is so good. 477 00:40:04.079 --> 00:40:07.440 To get in the spirit a little bit, I've got a terrible riddle. 478 00:40:07.500 --> 00:40:11.699 What do you call it when honey producing insects conspire together? 479 00:40:11.760 --> 00:40:13.380 Not a conspirator be? 480 00:40:13.500 --> 00:40:16.320 No, I don't know, Mark. 481 00:40:16.380 --> 00:40:20.519 What do you call it when honey producing insects conspire together? 482 00:40:20.639 --> 00:40:22.320 It's a B plot. 483 00:40:22.320 --> 00:40:25.980 And the B plot here, such as it is, is... 484 00:40:25.980 --> 00:40:30.960 The village decided to start obsessively writing jokes. 485 00:40:31.019 --> 00:40:31.559 Brilliant. 486 00:40:31.619 --> 00:40:33.900 What do we think of the quality of the jokes? 487 00:40:33.960 --> 00:40:37.260 The quality of the jokes are terrible, but they're like a Christmas carracker. 488 00:40:37.320 --> 00:40:38.219 They meant to be terrible. 489 00:40:38.280 --> 00:40:39.659 So everyone's against them. 490 00:40:39.900 --> 00:40:46.739 But I like the way Orrex kind of understanding that they're terrible and kind of analysing their terribleness and it's great. 491 00:40:46.800 --> 00:40:51.480 And then uses that as a little plot point to say how they were holding off the ultra. 492 00:40:51.539 --> 00:40:53.039 Yeah, that's all good. 493 00:40:53.099 --> 00:40:53.820 It works. 494 00:40:53.880 --> 00:40:56.880 My my 2 things about that are is that Villa has come. 495 00:40:56.940 --> 00:41:00.360 Villa is a long way away from the character we 1st met. 496 00:41:00.420 --> 00:41:09.780 He is kind of, you know, it's, and I like it when we're reminded that he's a thief and again, he is someone you don't want on your side, but guess what? 497 00:41:09.840 --> 00:41:11.460 You're stuck with a son of a bitch. 498 00:41:11.519 --> 00:41:17.340 Yep, but 11 the jokes are no problem with the jokes, except that. 499 00:41:17.460 --> 00:41:25.019 The interesting thing is um, with the one, yeah, where do space pilots leave their ships at parking meteors? 500 00:41:25.079 --> 00:41:33.599 Now, for that joke to work, and for Villa to know, that means parking metres do actually exist in the Blake 7 universe. 501 00:41:33.719 --> 00:41:35.340 So, yeah. 502 00:41:35.340 --> 00:41:40.500 Well, Rob, Rob, you're the one who keeps talking about a fascist future. 503 00:41:44.280 --> 00:41:48.960 I had the same note, because most people on Earth live in domes, don't they? 504 00:41:49.019 --> 00:41:53.280 So you don't even imagine them driving, let alone having parking metres. 505 00:41:53.340 --> 00:41:56.099 They're in space, yeah, yeah, yeah. 506 00:41:56.159 --> 00:41:56.639 Yeah, yeah. 507 00:41:56.940 --> 00:42:08.820 On a similar note, when Tarrant, you know, who was presumably brought up in a dome and went to Space Academy and whatnot, says to Dana, have you ever seen a lizard suck a bird's egg dry? 508 00:42:08.880 --> 00:42:13.079 And I just thought, Dana's more likely to have seen that than you are. 509 00:42:13.139 --> 00:42:15.480 Like Dana used to go hunting for God's sake. 510 00:42:17.280 --> 00:42:31.320 And and also it's like, so yeah, it's kind of like that in the, something is being sucked out, but also not because that's not a brain and it doesn't, it's not attached to a body yet and this isn't a lizard. 511 00:42:31.380 --> 00:42:33.300 But yeah, apart from that Tarrant, bang on. 512 00:42:33.360 --> 00:42:36.360 It's like putting too much air in a balloon. 513 00:42:36.420 --> 00:42:38.159 Well done. looking for analogies. 514 00:42:38.219 --> 00:42:42.780 I think for me, there's no real explanation of why Villa's doing this this week. 515 00:42:42.840 --> 00:42:45.179 And so you think it's got to be relevant. 516 00:42:45.239 --> 00:42:51.539 And then once Tarrant and Dana and Avon arrive on the planet and Tarrant makes that quip. 517 00:42:51.659 --> 00:42:58.619 And they don't, and the ultras don't understand it, and Avon says, that's what passes for Wit aboard our ship. 518 00:42:58.679 --> 00:43:06.719 I thought, ah, this is how this place is going to be defeated, because Villa is just kind of obsessed with rewriting jokes up in the ship. 519 00:43:06.780 --> 00:43:15.900 Because up to that point, I think it's sort of quite clever in the way that you think, well, they're in a giant computer, as I say before, Avon's a computer expert, he could defeat it. 520 00:43:15.960 --> 00:43:20.940 Callie's a telepath, as someone said earlier, so it could be her that defeats it. 521 00:43:21.000 --> 00:43:22.619 Youve got all records of supercomputer. 522 00:43:22.679 --> 00:43:23.820 He obviously does play it into it. 523 00:43:23.880 --> 00:43:35.039 So there's quite a lot of avenues there, but yeah, for me at that point, I thought, well, that's definitely how it's going to be resolved because it's, yeah, it's, there's no other reason for Villa to be doing that, really. 524 00:43:35.099 --> 00:43:39.900 There's no proper kind of inciting incident for the B plot. 525 00:43:39.960 --> 00:43:41.639 Like, you know, is there? 526 00:43:42.599 --> 00:43:54.719 he's already doing it when we, when the episode starts, rather than Aurak not getting a, he makes a joke as an aside, Aurak doesn't get it, and that kicks off his frustration with doing it. 527 00:43:54.780 --> 00:43:57.300 Yeah, so that would probably... 528 00:43:57.360 --> 00:44:02.460 I don't even see that as a B plot, the whole villa in the ship talking to for some reason. 529 00:44:02.519 --> 00:44:04.139 Look, it's not really a plot. 530 00:44:04.199 --> 00:44:06.719 He didn't give me a C or a decod. 531 00:44:06.780 --> 00:44:14.340 It's just it's just a bit of colour that then comes back to the A-plot to all the plot to have some relevance. 532 00:44:14.400 --> 00:44:23.820 A B plot needs to, they need to be having their own kind of separate subadventure that they couldn't work out enough to do to make it a proper episode out of, you know. 533 00:44:23.880 --> 00:44:26.579 Yeah, something I sort of find with that. 534 00:44:26.639 --> 00:44:31.440 And I was reading online, apparently, this is Michael Keating's least favourite episode. 535 00:44:31.440 --> 00:44:41.699 And if he's just come off the back of doing city on the edge of the world, which he got, because he said, you know, my kids don't think I'm heroic, yeah, coming into this is a bit of a problem. 536 00:44:41.760 --> 00:44:54.300 But even then, he realises when he's being mentally attacked and asks Aurak for help, which I think is a fascinating moment, considering Kelly can't do that. 537 00:44:54.960 --> 00:45:00.659 And, you know, sci-fi characters are always being possessed, et cetera. 538 00:45:00.719 --> 00:45:03.539 But for Villa to be able to say, I know what this is. 539 00:45:03.599 --> 00:45:04.320 I'm being got at. 540 00:45:04.380 --> 00:45:11.159 Orac helped me and Orac just basically says, okay, you're going to jam them and I will do the flying and everything else. 541 00:45:12.059 --> 00:45:31.199 Yeah, if you do want to consider the strand with Villa and Aurak as a B plot, then it's kind of, it's the story of how Villa turns this humourless computer into a continuing to be humourless computer that deconstructs jokes until they're no longer funny. 542 00:45:31.260 --> 00:45:34.079 Basically, Villa turns Zorak into a comedy writer. 543 00:45:34.139 --> 00:45:38.400 You know, and that's kind of, you know, that's what that that's what that plot is. 544 00:45:41.460 --> 00:45:50.400 If I could level one potential criticism at this story, is it does feel like a bit of a retread of redemption in some of its ideas. 545 00:45:50.460 --> 00:45:57.960 You know, the altars become the ultras, the system becomes the core. 546 00:45:58.019 --> 00:46:02.940 But I think this is possibly a better exploration of the idea. 547 00:46:03.000 --> 00:46:07.739 Maybe because the whole episode is given over to it, because I remember way back when we were talking about redemption. 548 00:46:07.800 --> 00:46:15.059 I was kind of like, this feels like 2 episodes. like the being dragged towards something and then the system is destroyed really quickly. 549 00:46:15.119 --> 00:46:20.579 But yeah, so I think giving it space to breathe makes this episode feel really great. 550 00:46:21.480 --> 00:46:29.940 I'd always assume this episode was relatively poorly considered out there by people. 551 00:46:30.000 --> 00:46:32.460 And I asked PC this afternoon after I'd watched it, the scene. 552 00:46:32.519 --> 00:46:33.840 I actually really thought that was quite good. 553 00:46:33.900 --> 00:46:36.719 And he said, yeah, yeah, yeah, no, people generally think it's rubbish. 554 00:46:36.780 --> 00:46:42.179 And I was looking at IMDb and only volcano and molar have lower ratings in IMDb. 555 00:46:42.239 --> 00:46:48.119 And this is level with Harvest of Chiros on 6.7 on IMDb, which is another episode which I love. 556 00:46:48.179 --> 00:46:56.940 So I might be the strange one here, but we have just spent the last hour or so saying that at the very least this episode is okay to quite entertaining. 557 00:46:57.360 --> 00:47:01.619 Why do we think it's sort of considered less popular? 558 00:47:01.980 --> 00:47:03.960 I'll have a go. 559 00:47:04.019 --> 00:47:10.500 If you're judging this episode as a standalone on its own terms for what it is rather than what it isn't. 560 00:47:10.559 --> 00:47:22.800 It's a good bit of dark Star Trek with some real, you know, with some good character stuff, you know, with all the leads, it looks great. very well put together. 561 00:47:22.800 --> 00:47:25.860 And there are no bits that clunk. 562 00:47:25.920 --> 00:47:35.699 Um, maybe maybe the uh, the bonding ceremony bit comes out of nowhere and is kind of memorable, the mildly the wrong reasons, but it's a good solid bit of like seven. 563 00:47:35.760 --> 00:48:00.480 However, if your metric is to judge it upon its place in, you know, kind of the ongoing quest of this ship and these survivors, you know, with the in the backdrop of a huge British fascist future empire thing, then it's not going to scratch that itch, but I think possibly it's maybe it's because it was being judged on things it isn't rather than what it is. 564 00:48:00.539 --> 00:48:02.820 So that would be my hunch. 565 00:48:02.880 --> 00:48:12.179 But, um, in and of itself, I don't see what it has done to deserve that level of uh, of disrespect. 566 00:48:12.239 --> 00:48:20.400 Yeah, and I think coming to them as I am for the 1st time and not really knowing what the sort of received fan wisdom or anything is. 567 00:48:20.460 --> 00:48:27.179 I would have said this was sort of better than average one, I've enjoyed, say, production values, I think, are some of the best that we've seen. 568 00:48:27.239 --> 00:48:32.280 And yeah, I think it's a really decent science fiction story with good performances. 569 00:48:32.460 --> 00:48:39.000 And I think compared to the only one I've not really thought was any good as volcano, to be honest, out of this series. 570 00:48:39.059 --> 00:48:41.699 And it's, you know, head and shoulders above that, I think. 571 00:48:41.760 --> 00:48:45.960 Yeah, building on sort of the previous series. 572 00:48:46.019 --> 00:48:49.440 I think we, you know, we've just had city on the edge of the world. 573 00:48:49.500 --> 00:48:54.900 Children of Our On, Rumours of Death, Sarcophagus, all of which are very highly regarded. 574 00:48:54.960 --> 00:48:58.380 And I think we then get this, which is good. 575 00:48:59.340 --> 00:49:01.920 And then it leads to Moloch. 576 00:49:01.980 --> 00:49:07.380 So I think maybe people are putting those 2 together in their minds because then we get Death Watch and terminal. 577 00:49:07.440 --> 00:49:18.239 And I won't say anything else about those to you, Mark, as you're still watching, but it's kind of like, yeah, I think what you were saying there, Rob, about people judging it for what it's not. 578 00:49:18.300 --> 00:49:22.260 They're sort of looking at around it and the ocean around it. 579 00:49:22.320 --> 00:49:33.000 And it's kind of like, yeah, I, you know, the only 2 episodes that have sort of disappointed me this season are Moloch and parts of Dawn of the Gods, although I think that had a good setup. 580 00:49:33.059 --> 00:49:43.320 And yeah, I think possibly the design of the ultras, if you just see the, I see a picture of them, they just look a bit silly, but with the performance, they look good. 581 00:49:43.380 --> 00:49:45.719 And yeah, then there's the bonding ritual. 582 00:49:45.780 --> 00:49:53.579 But the thing I like about the bonding ritual is we don't know how much time passes between scenes. 583 00:49:53.639 --> 00:49:58.199 We don't know if anything else happens and it's left ambiguous. 584 00:49:58.260 --> 00:50:03.059 I think the impression we're meant to have is no nothing happens. 585 00:50:03.119 --> 00:50:07.500 Like, she pulls him onto the bed, they snog for a bit, then they do the bit with the grenade. 586 00:50:07.559 --> 00:50:09.300 I think that's what we're meant to believe, but you never know. 587 00:50:09.360 --> 00:50:18.059 Yeah, one thing I love about that, which I forgot to say was that, um, yeah, I, I just, I, generally, I, you know, even though it's a kind of a fake out thing to escape. 588 00:50:18.119 --> 00:50:22.320 I still love the kind of just the attitude to sex that characters have. 589 00:50:22.380 --> 00:50:28.679 It just feels it feels real and it feels totally suitable for them, their world, and everything else. 590 00:50:28.739 --> 00:50:31.920 There's no coyness or embarrassment. 591 00:50:31.980 --> 00:50:35.280 It's just, yeah, these, these, yeah, yeah. 592 00:50:35.340 --> 00:50:45.840 And it's it's a place to take characters that sci-fi doesn't, you know, in this period, this period, you know, on the beep, you know, so it just it, yeah. 593 00:50:45.900 --> 00:50:51.539 And on one hand, it feels kind of grown up, but on the other, because it kind of jumps out of nowhere. 594 00:50:51.599 --> 00:50:59.699 It also feels a little bit spurious, but but but just Dana's attitude to sex and Terence as well. 595 00:50:59.760 --> 00:51:03.000 Something about that, I just think in character terms, I think, is good. 596 00:51:03.059 --> 00:51:03.780 I think it works. 597 00:51:03.840 --> 00:51:05.820 Yeah, I agree. 598 00:51:05.880 --> 00:51:06.719 I very much agree. 599 00:51:06.780 --> 00:51:18.780 I wonder whether people sort of like it less because of all the Blake, it's one of those Blake 7 episodes, which is not nearly as Blake 7 episodes, and it's kind of what we've all sort of touched on at various times before. 600 00:51:18.840 --> 00:51:31.920 You know, partly because there's no server land in it, obviously, but it's not like she did every episode, but it is missing that kind of heightened small sea campness that I think I think does infuse a lot of episodes where the Jacqueline Pierce is in it or not. 601 00:51:31.980 --> 00:51:42.239 And this is actually, even though you've got Villa on the Liberator telling dreadful jokes to Alrek, I mean, that's supposed to be the comic relief and other other bits of comic relief, but it's not silly. 602 00:51:42.300 --> 00:51:51.239 There's nothing about this episode which is sort of silly, or at least not deliberately silly, and I think that might be what some people might be looking for in some other episodes. 603 00:51:51.300 --> 00:51:53.340 I think it's the same reason why we brought it up last season. 604 00:51:53.400 --> 00:52:03.960 Like 2 of my favourites from the previous season are Killer and Horizon, both of which take themselves actually quite seriously. but are also very entertaining and very, very well made, both of them. 605 00:52:04.019 --> 00:52:09.659 But again, I don't know whether either of them are particularly rated highly in the Blake 7 canon. 606 00:52:09.719 --> 00:52:11.880 And I'm wondering whether it's for comparable reasons. 607 00:52:12.360 --> 00:52:34.500 Yeah, I have a natural mistrust of received fan wisdom anyway, because it's one of those things that, you know, having grown up through Doctor Who, as one does, you know, it changes generation to generation, and you can always tell who's the dominant fan generation at the moment, is usually the ones who's got output commenting all this stuff. 608 00:52:34.559 --> 00:52:39.780 And it's so receive fan wisdom kind of changes with the with the weather. 609 00:52:39.840 --> 00:52:44.219 So kind of coming to these relatively recently in the last couple of years. 610 00:52:44.280 --> 00:52:52.199 Because I only started watching Blake 7, seriously, when I was asked to write one for Big Finish. 611 00:52:52.260 --> 00:52:54.420 So I can say, right, I'm going to actually do it. 612 00:52:54.719 --> 00:53:01.980 So just watching them fresh as if they're coming out now, which is essentially what I've been doing is that's the true test. 613 00:53:02.039 --> 00:53:12.420 So I kind of think in some, in some ways, I think the healthiest thing is just to ignore the, you know, treat, receive fan wisdom as an interesting phenomenon to discuss in itself. 614 00:53:12.480 --> 00:53:15.719 Yeah, that's the kind of that's the way of doing it. 615 00:53:15.780 --> 00:53:18.059 Yeah, no, I entirely agree. 616 00:53:18.119 --> 00:53:21.900 I mean, you should take everything on some merits and I love doing that. and my views of things. 617 00:53:21.960 --> 00:53:25.559 I mean, us, Brendan, are often contrary to recede fan wisdom. 618 00:53:25.619 --> 00:53:41.940 Often they're in agreement, but I do agree with you that receive fan wisdom, whether it's Doctor Who or Blake 7 or whatever it is, is, I agree, usually the result of 3 important people at the time, what they thought of it, and then that kind of permeates down, and that's why the gunfighters is rubbish for a while, and then, and then it starts. 619 00:53:42.000 --> 00:53:52.500 That's, as you said, that's, that's, that's fascinating about this is because the received fan wisdom becomes another interesting thing to therefore discuss, which is why it's good to take that account. 620 00:53:52.559 --> 00:53:59.340 It's interesting, but I would kind of, this is a perhaps a different discussion, but I'm not convinced it necessary changes like the weather. 621 00:53:59.400 --> 00:54:00.300 For me, it changes. 622 00:54:00.360 --> 00:54:13.019 It's almost like there's a catalyst is something where it's almost like a religious moment where everyone accepts that this is the quality of this episode and that episode related to that episode and this is where everything sits. 623 00:54:13.079 --> 00:54:15.059 And then for some reason, something happens. 624 00:54:15.119 --> 00:54:32.880 And back in the day, it would have been a VHS release or something or the episodes being recovered or whatever happens to be, it suddenly creates this, this, like, come to Jesus moment where everyone goes, oh, my God, I've seen the light and actually this is actually really great or actually this is really terrible or whatever it happens to be. 625 00:54:32.940 --> 00:54:40.199 And the whole thing is reappraised, and then a whole new fan received wisdom sort of sets itself going from that point of view. 626 00:54:40.260 --> 00:54:46.079 So it's kind of like there are step changes in fan received wisdom rather than rather than a kind of assigned way. 627 00:54:46.199 --> 00:54:48.960 Yeah, weather was absolutely the wrong analogy. 628 00:54:49.019 --> 00:54:57.000 It's absolutely a religious, a religious metaphor is, is always the way to explore these things. 629 00:54:57.119 --> 00:55:02.579 You know, who, you know, which generation is accusing which of heresy and, uh, you know, what, yeah. 630 00:55:02.639 --> 00:55:04.619 Because it's always, it is always heresy. 631 00:55:07.800 --> 00:55:10.619 And I'm a modern day heretic. 632 00:55:19.320 --> 00:55:21.960 As ever, thank you very much for listening. 633 00:55:22.019 --> 00:55:24.480 Join us next week when we'll be discussing Moloch. 634 00:55:24.539 --> 00:55:41.099 In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts and keep up with us on our website, maximumpowerpodcast.com, where you'll find links to all our other podcasts, Bondfinger, the BJBJ game show, Flight through Entirety, Jody into Terror, Trap One, and Untitled Star Trek Project. 635 00:55:41.159 --> 00:55:42.480 Thank you very much. 636 00:55:42.539 --> 00:55:42.780 Goodbye. 637 00:55:42.840 --> 00:55:43.619 Good night. 638 00:55:43.679 --> 00:55:44.880 Bye bye. 639 00:55:44.940 --> 00:55:45.960 Until next time. 640 00:55:46.199 --> 00:55:48.300 Switching to manual. 641 00:55:48.360 --> 00:55:50.340 Maximum power on all drives. 642 00:55:53.400 --> 00:55:55.320 Maximum power. 643 00:56:01.380 --> 00:56:03.000 Who was I talking to? 644 00:56:03.119 --> 00:56:08.400 I think, um, Simon, the other day, I was talking to Conrad about the Kill the Moon episode. 645 00:56:08.460 --> 00:56:09.599 Oh, God. 646 00:56:09.659 --> 00:56:11.340 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 647 00:56:11.400 --> 00:56:14.280 And he said, and he said, Simon's very spirited. 648 00:56:14.340 --> 00:56:15.719 I love it when Simon gets spirited. 649 00:56:15.780 --> 00:56:21.840 I said, yeah, I don't think this made it into the edit, but at one point I say to Simon and Nathan, I don't like it when daddy and daddy start fighting. 650 00:56:24.599 --> 00:56:40.199 But that was sort of a big discussion over just how an episode's reception was changed over the last 10 years, you know, and then we're talking about something here, which, yeah, as we said earlier, it's 43 years old and, you know, has gone up and down. 651 00:56:40.260 --> 00:56:46.260 Something I've noticed recently is a lot more people saying, actually, quantum of solace isn't that bad? 652 00:56:46.320 --> 00:56:51.539 It's just that we had to pick the worst Daniel Craig film, and that's what we settled on. 653 00:56:51.599 --> 00:56:54.119 And then people are like, but there's Spectre over here. 654 00:56:54.780 --> 00:57:04.559 But I noticed with the Daniel Craig films, it's like they come out, they're the best ever, and then it's like fashionable to shit on them for about 5 years, and then they go back up again. 655 00:57:05.340 --> 00:57:09.420 Unlike, say Roger Moore, where you can always just make fun of Roger Moore. 656 00:57:09.480 --> 00:57:11.639 Even though most of the films are good.