Maximum power.
Hello and welcome back to Maximum Power, a podcast where I have my fingers poised on individual kill switches for each of my co-panelists, lest they misbehave.
I'm Simon.
I'm Cole.
I'm Pete.
And guess what?
I'm Vita.
Well, despite the fact that in those 1st few minutes on the Liberator, you'll think we're headed towards Rumours of Death.
We 1st have to be diverted to children of our on, which is what we're talking about this episode.
We'll start by just getting some, you know, top line impressions.
So, Peter, how do you rate this one in the Blake 7 Irvine?
All right.
Well, on the out series B retrospective, I joked about the exotic world of our own being depicted as an airport control tower.
And I do stand by the fact that that was an odd choice.
I'm not sure this tellies with all the other hints of our own culture that we've had over the series.
It's kind of an unexpectedly functional, technological depiction of a fantasy idea, such as clones and telepathy, but having said that, this is very, very good.
In fact, it's my 2nd favourite Blake 7 story after aftermath and power play.
I think it's just an incredibly well crafted episode.
Big praise there.
Brendan, do you agree?
Yeah, I do think it's really enjoyable.
And yeah, very, very well crafted.
I will observe, however, that if I had a dollar for every time that Ronald Lee Hunt was the intransigent and sceptical base commander of a futuristic facility that involved a teleport in a BBC sci-fi production, well, I'd only have $3, but it's weird that it happens that often.
Yes.
More than one.
But isn't he always so wonderfully earnest in all of these?
He's got to tone up.
He doesn't disappoint.
Yeah, there's yeah, there's a particular moment where his his 2IC sort of has a very subtle line about despair, full of nuance and Ronald's reply is, yes, why?
Why has this happened?
Why?
I like the fact that he and his deputy are called CA1 and CA2.
I like to think that's control of the F, which one?
Yeah.
Striker.
We just have a picture of himself on the wall behind himself looking increasingly drunk and then we could go into full airplane mode.
The sweat pouring down his prowl.
Yes, exactly.
So, Colin, top, middle or bottom draw for you.
Top drawer.
Yeah, I think this is great.
I thought, Peter, this was your favourite story and it's worked its way down 2 episodes in the last few weeks.
But I'm with you.
I think it's definitely my top five.
I think it's, um, It's got a lot going on.
I think it's pretty well crafted.
I like the idea that everyone's pretty incompetent.
Like, you know, the base commander.
His reaction is, oh no.
Uh, and, you know, it just, and I quite like that about Blake 7 is, you know, it's, uh, it doesn't, it doesn't all end wonderfully, but I think the thing that, you know, I think the thing that bugs me a little bit is the sort of planetary genocide is skipped by about a few days and you don't really notice it until the dialogue sort of catches up.
And at the end of the episode, they're like, let's go away from a planet with 5000 children on it.
Oh, but there was just this genocide thing, whatever.
But I really like it.
I like the characters.
I think it's Serverland's, one of Serverland's very best episodes, and one of the Federation Guards' worst ever episodes.
But it's a lot of fun.
And Ginkka, has Ginkka, we'll get to Ginkka.
We love Ginka.
Well, get it.
We are definitely getting to get.
Ginku is a whole subcategory of the subsection of the episode.
But, Pete, one of your top ones as well.
Yeah, yes it is.
Are you going to?
No, no, yeah, I want to be on this one.
Because, yeah, and it's a, it's got that nice blend of having serious drama moments.
And also sometimes it does just crank it up a little bit too high.
I don't like it when they do that You've got Daryl and Ginker kind of handbagging each other at dawn, squabbling for Servoland's attention in their own, in their own ways.
And, uh, yes, Commander, Commander Radna, being, um, in, I, what was this?
I, his agent, phoning Muckham. great new role for you.
You're really breaking away.
Oh, of course, I, well, Shakespeare's like, well, you're kind of the commander of a base and it's kind of under siege and it's kind of a teleport.
And he's like, okay.
But yeah, maybe...
He said, the BBC phoned up and said, we want a Ronald Lee Hunt.
So I'm getting in touch.
Yes.
Yes, exactly, because that's all he's capable of giving, to be fair.
But I do like it anyway.
It's reliable.
It's reliable. anyway.
No, definitely one of my tops as well.
I had such strong memories of this from its 1st showing in Australia in 1980.
I remember sitting there at midnight for the repeat 2 years later, all of a dither, waiting for it to come on because I remembered how great it was.
And looking at it now, I just can't believe, is this really by the same man who brought us the ludicrous nonsense of voice from the past?
Yeah, so it's the same guy's voice from the past and then he can turn around and do this.
Maybe it's just the success of production.
Maybe it's, it's people who really know how to do it because there are some, as sort of we have sort of all said, There are some sort of slightly ludicrous things about it, but it doesn't matter because it all just fits together and works so well.
Yes, I mean, this was the last episode on that infamous 4 hour tape you let me peter like 30 something years ago, which I'd said was where I 1st saw Harvest of Chiros.
So this is one of the very 1st Blake 7 episodes I saw.
So it did set a rather high yardstick against which I measured everything that I saw since and very few of them stacked up to this one.
I think it really is very good.
So, how do we think that our old, I mean, Peter, you touched on that at the before.
How do you feel our on is realised compared to what we already know about it from what's been dropped from Kelly's comments in the past?
Is it as you'd expect it to be?
I think that what we end up with is probably more interesting than we would have otherwise gotten because the hints we'd had of our on, they were quite, it was quite an airy fairy thing with legends and, um, you know, magical beings and things like that.
If you're actually going to set an episode there, I think this was probably the way to go, actually.
There's that great sort of info dump that you get on the Liberator where Cali sort of, they sort of writing and also slightly, I think, rewriting some of that legend just to make it perfectly work with the episode.
Sort of, Pete, did it, did it measure up for you, what you were imagining?
Yeah, sure.
Yeah, because like you said, yeah, Peter, I expected more crystals.
I expected more wafting.
The fact that it's actually a sort of sort of admin centre.
Yes.
Yeah, and men will be like, people doing that on her planet.
Yes, yes.
It's like an air traffic control changer, really, isn't it?
at desks. doing jobs very badly.
It transpires.
I expected a bit more competence from her people as well.
I was like, okay, how, and they decided to have a real calmdown on quarantine the day after the deadly space plague breaks in, which, and maybe that's what, you know, Roger Parks maybe has been looking at.
Yeah, any lessons there?
Roger Parks has been, okay, looking at Blake 7 basics.
What do we want?
We want a plague.
That's what we want.
We've not got a quarry this week.
How many plagues have we had so far?
That's the point.
Who's been keeping count?
Should have been, should we?
Well, those killer.
Space flags are always useful, though.
But there is that thing, don't you think, that you've got that, you know, A, you know, there's sort of this isolationist society at this and yet they don't seem to have any kind of even vague quarantine thing for when their their crew comes or their their lone crew member comes back from from space.
And also like, you know, oh, no, exactly.
But also, like, as I said, I mean, I'm just listing some plot holes because you do kind of not worry about them because another is when, so the older ones like, you know, Ronald Lee Hunt and whoever that other woman is, they're fine because they're older, so they'd been into space before, but the younger ones.
So then why is Calli okay when she's escaped at a younger age.
Why isn't she done it?
And then, of course, it's revealed that this is supposed to be from the interplanetary war, so the aliens have brought it with them.
So it's all a bit kind of, let's just not think about all that too much.
Maybe Kelly got her gorilla booster shots before she went to Sorian Major.
She's a sensible...
But we do kick things.
Yes.
But we do kick things off quite, quite, quite well with a sort of an unmistakeable face who is not someone that you sort of think it's going to be somewhere that's actually, it turns out to be, well, someone related to someone.
What do you think of that early performance from Michael Troughton?
We asked him about it.
We asked him about it last week.
He was down.
The doctor, the doctor, him convention...
I can't remember.
I think he said he had a lovely time and everybody was very nice.
I think that's probably what...
I think you said that's what he said.
He said, I can't remember.
I can't remember.
I meant to ask. a lot of time in makeup and he didn't get really, you know, he didn't have all that much to do.
Obviously, he's only in a couple 2 or 3 scenes.
Um, but...
That's how young he is.
Yeah, some green ooze coming ahead with the corner of his mouth there.
He said he'd had pizza for lunch and they didn't clear him off before he went to the door screen.
It was so strange for me watching this because just last week I watched last Christmas for FTE.
Oh, wow.
Um, and, you know, I'm used to seeing young David, yeah, I'm used to seeing young David Trout and then Curse of Peladin, but I'd never seen anything with Michael that young as a, except for its enemy of the world.
I think he's in in a very minor role.
You know, so to see him that young, but also so recognisable, that especially the voice, of course, is so distinctive.
And it's a small part, but he does well with it, I think.
Like, he engenders sympathy with his sort of open attitude, and it does kind of bring to mind what Callie said back in Mission to Destiny, a man who trusts can never be betrayed, only mistaken.
And Avon is quite correct in that that leads to a very short life expectancy.
Yes.
He has to be sort of boyish and sell the naivety of this nice lady who's rescued him giving him this lovely potion to drink.
Sure, it's all going to be fine.
How is this sort of, how is this species 5 this long?
bloody telepathic and they still can't.
Exactly.
Well, no, it's the island.
It causes a gullibility surge.
It's the idea that our our rons are alien because they've been isolated for so long in general and they've created this cloning process and enhanced people with telepaths.
Well, doesn't doesn't Cervolan say humid at some point?
That's what I thought.
Yeah, and Avon talks about Cali.
Yeah, and Avon talks to Callie and says, and about the rest of humanity.
The Arons or the rest of humanity.
So it's like they have turned themselves into aliens seems to be what they've now what's now been decided.
But also, I don't know whether that's that kind of a naming problem.
Like anyone who doesn't need, you know, latex on their forehead or scales or whatever else is human.
It doesn't matter if they evolved on earth or not.
Do you think it's just that terminology?
Or do you think it's just the fact that because they've set up this society cut themselves off and enhance themselves?
I think it's saying the latter this week, but they're not nailing it down.
It's the old galaxy solar system.
Galaxy Schmalacy.
Galaxy Salar System Universe.
Yes, exactly.
Humans.
Yes exactly.
I think it's a very interesting opening to the episode because we jump in with Michael Shouten with Servoland.
And then when we eventually come back to the Liberator, it's, as you said, Simon, it's odd to start a story by teasing what the next story is going to be, as it does here.
I'm not entirely sure why it does that.
But I think there's kind of a, there's a loose meditation in this episode, an extra episodes about loss and grief, which goes through Remember's death and sarcophicus swell.
But I don't think it's meant to be what you call an arc.
But what it does do is really make the character interaction sing.
And those early scenes.
You'd swear that they were written by Chris Boucher because they're so strong for the regular characters.
And there's that interesting element of tension between Avon and Cali, which we've never really seen before.
They're quite antagonistic towards each other, or should I say Avon is antagonistic towards Cali?
It struck me as, and you'll find this in fanfic anywhere, that they'd had a romantic buster.
There's that kind of resentment between Avon Kelly there.
And Callie's line.
Why do you imagine I've never gone back, affection for him?
And Villa and Tara, look at each other kind of wild-eyed and you think, what's going on here?
I think it's really interesting.
I think it's just another one of those things like, you know, where Tarrant is berating Villa at beginning of city at the end of the world.
It's just one of those things they just decide to throw in there and then it's gone.
I wonder if it's also, I wonder if there's a habitual thing for the writers just slipping into not wanting usually to do the same kind of conflict between a male and female character that they would easily do between Blake and an Avon.
Avon and Blake could be fighting all the time, and those are great scenes, and we don't, and this is, I think, a fairly rare example of Avon doing that with one of the female characters.
And it works fine, but I don't know if they were just the gentlemen who are making the show might have been a bit reluctant to do that sometimes.
I don't know.
Hmm.
I think it's just the fact that, yeah, they don't want them all to be chummy, and so they're told, make sure they're not all chummy.
They're supposed to be criminals who are thrown together, and they don't necessarily like each other. you know.
I mean, Avon is supposed to be the lead now, and so that brings them into conflict with anyone of the crew who has their own agenda, like Cali does here.
I think it's, there's a certain irony in the fact that Avon is the only one who's all suspicious that the fact that the distress call from our on could be a trap, considering what will go down.
Well, anyway, enough of this serious discourse onto far more important things.
Let's talk, let's talk about dinker.
Which is one of the best space names ever.
Can I say?
I love that name.
It just is so perfect.
Do you know he has a hyphenated surname?
Ginka King switch.
No, that's what I've got on my on my on my console here.
I mean, Daryl and Ginka are both really good.
It's so easy for those sort of offices of the week to become faceless or interchangeable.
So who really remembers Dastor from Harvest of Chiros?
All that scruffy Battle Commander guy from Volcano.
But Ginka, especially, gets screen time.
And he has his own agenda.
And of course, he gets his own dedicated gold switch, which is amazing.
But do they both have a kill?
Is it the same kill switch or is like Ginker on the left and Daryl on the right?
No, it's incredible X. Right.
I've watched it in detail.
I think you have to press both buttons at the same time just in case you accidentally slam.
Oh, it's like, it's like sitting off, it's like sitting off a nuclear missile.
It's 12.
Sorry.
Yeah, killed the rock.
Wouldn't it be terrible if Sergland couldn't tell left from right?
She pressed the wrong button and Daryl dropped dead again.
They're going, um.
But it is, but the thing is, it is under, it is kind of at least protected.
It's under a little flap that she has to lift up.
So it's not like she could accidentally kill one.
You done her coffee on it.
Oh, sorry.
I love it.
Like, with, with Ginka, you know, it is cold-blooded fury where she, where she kills him with Daryl, is just like, oh, God, you're back, are you?
Exactly.
Get them out of here.
But they love the way she sort of goes, she's kind of Yeah, she's kind of recovered from her trauma of losing her you're losing her embryos, her foetuses.
And but the way, you know, says, Daryl.
Wow.
I just love the way he says.
Well, and then she turns around and zaps him.
Brilliant.
But what do we, in terms of Genka, the actor.
I mean, it is, is it?
I mean, do you think he was supposed to be an Asian accel?
Do you think that was just a, they just, that was just who was cast?
Because it's a very very unusual choice for that era, let's be honest.
It is an unusual choice for that era.
I think they may do something with the music that is inappropriate a little bit later on. and that's not good.
I didn't notice that.
Yeah, he takes his mind.
He gets that.
Yeah.
When he's raiding control and takes his mask off, Dudley's like, I know a dog.
Oh, wow.
Yeah, a big, a big, to be fair, to be fair, Dudley does like his goals at any opportunity.
There is no other song in this episode.
Oh, okay, fine.
Yes, okay.
Well, that's Dudley.
That's Dudley for you.
So Rick Young is Indiana Jones from the Temple of Doom.
He's in that opening scene, the nightclub.
Yeah, he's really...
He is so... both versions.
Yeah, her original alias.
Both versions.
I think he was an alias.
He is an alias.
Yeah, absolutely. the 1st episode.
And an early role for him.
Well, I say early, he was actually acting in the UK in the 60s and before that in Singapore.
Um, but something we may all know him from is tomorrow people, um, the doomsday men where he is Li Wan, the Chinese astronaut.
One of the astronauts, that's right.
I've never seen that.
I'll have to go and find it.
Brendan, just to be clear, I will never know anyone from the tomorrow people if I can help it. with you.
You see, you see, Simon, in 1990, I should have given you a 4 out date with the Tomorrow people on, then it would be a very different story.
The podcast.
This would be the 1st time you were ever spoken.
Exactly.
I think that Rick Young is amazing.
I think he is really really great.
And he makes Ginka really sly and reptilian.
He's almost like a mini serve land in kind of the evil relish in his machinations and it's so good to see an Asian actor on television of the era and in a great role. defined by race.
He should have been there.
He should have been the new Travis, really.
Yeah.
Yes.
Yeah, with with...
And a different kind of Travis.
Yes, he could have, he's wasted.
Well, not again, I guess his thing that he is too similar to Serverland for Serverland to tolerate.
I guess.
He wouldn't be a stoo-. wouldn't work as a stooge in the same way that she wouldn't.
So maybe that's why he goes in a blaze of, well, in a blaze of button pressing.
Um, A red CSO.
She would turn around to him and say, bear in mind that I can kill you at any time, Ginker, and he would say, oh, I do bear it. in mind all the time.
He rather outshines Daryl, but he's a familiar face from Horror Fang Rock.
He's one of the people in the ship who get shipwrecked in Doctor Who horror.
Is he really, right?
Yes, he played the fabulously named Rio Fanning.
Rio Fanning.
Rio Flanning or Fanning?
Fanning.
Okay, I've mistyped that.
The coach is going to be thinking for a moment expanding what you were saying.
Yeah, yes. expanding on what you were saying, Peter.
I think one of the reasons why his performance as Ginka is so strong is because it's so consistent.
It's not like he's suddenly big in this scene and camp in that scene and then level in another scene.
It is all pitched exactly the same in terms of bigness or kind of campness.
And I think that's always important when you're doing a character like that.
It's always, and even when he's, there's so much coming through there, even when you're watching him on a monitor and he's looking up at the screen, it's it's so, he's so perfectly pitched, don't you think?
Yeah, is he the poshest person in Blake Seven?
Or is it Suleim or Tarant or Gang?
Ginking poshes.
Yeah, he could well be as posh as that.
He does...
There's a lot of rolling of ours.
Yeah.
And especially next to Rio Fanning, who's sort of growling, and dare I say, a bit one note, like Ginka enunciates everything he says.
Yeah, yeah, you know, I can take in a death squad. you know, but it really works.
Like, you know, it's kind of like the Arnold Rimmer thing of like Rimmer tries to be so proper, but Ginker's actually got the force to back it up.
That sort of character, you know.
Yes.
Well, you feel like you can, you can hear him say, did you use a set square?
I think not.
Is this a 14 B?
Does this look like a 14 B?
This is a this is a 14 F. Sorry.
It's also, it's really great that we have Ginker and Daryl to play off each other because I think that gives another element to the Federation.
It's a fascinating deposit what the ranks look like under President Servland, because she has a line in orbit next series where she says to Agorian, don't concern yourself.
I encourage ambition.
And it really seems like it amuses her to see her underlings squabbling and trying to curry favour with her.
And she oversteps Mark with Daryl a few times and just steps in when he's trying to discipline Ginka.
So she's not helping matters.
And going back to what I was saying, um, about Servland.
That's not a leadership model that works, as is shown here.
If only she had been a better commander.
She probably would have pulled this off.
I would love to see Servolan on a training course for managers, personnel management training course.
Yeah, let's ask Kasabi how that went.
But actually, going back to Brendan, you were saying, because Daryl is so so like vanilla in comparison, and that's, I think, why they do play off each other so well.
Yeah, because you've got this kind of big performance in this more standard performance.
You're going to say?
Well, I was just going to say that playing off of subordinates is straight out of the fascist leader playbook because Hitler used to make his generals and air marshals and intelligence heads basically compete for his attention and thus funding and thus interest.
And there's a lot of historical analysis that says, had he not done that?
Um, you know, he would have been harder to fight and defeat.
And as you say here with Servolan, yeah, if she had not behaved in that way, things would have gone better for her.
Yes.
The thing with Hitler, I think, was that it was supposed to be that he deliberately give overlapping and unclear responsibilities to people so that that's why so that you get that kind of conflict. and they could they could vie for his attention.
And it's, it's, I mean, notionally Daryl's supposed to be, you know, obviously Ginker's commanding officer, and of course it said that they were obviously at the same level at one point.
But, I mean, why would you even want to be promoted and be under Serverland if there's a kill switch where?
Well, exactly.
Where do you see yourself in 5 years time?
I mean, Serverland must have been in the midst of installing that jar, but kill switch 2 episodes ago.
Yes exactly.
Yes, where do I see myself not bright red on the floor?
Because you love the way King is bright red when he's on the floor.
No, no, afterwards, like when Daryl's teleported back.
Gink is all red.
It's still there.
Just a corpse.
We haven't got around cleaning that up yet, don't we?
I think Jackie Pierce is really enjoying this episode.
I think with several of the episodes this year, they have given her more stuff to do than just to be steely and villainous.
And like there's a couple of words that are noted that there's a scene where she looks genuinely worried when she realises Avon and Co are heading for the replication plant.
She gets to play worried and then later she gets to play vulnerable.
Yes.
She also gets to play crushing up the little aluminium mug and throwing it.
Yes, why does he only get?
Why does he only get crushed up plastic cup throat at you?
Whereas the others get the kill switch.
It's like she hasn't she any wiser for the senior officers?
I mean, he actually let Avon escape or something.
And like, did she have to fill out a form to have that kill switch made?
I promoted them.
Please supply one kill switch.
It's almost, it's almost the opposite of rank has its privileges. rank brings you instant death.
Where there's rank, that's right.
When I rewatched it this morning, I just noticed her earrings.
Did anyone notice her earrings?
Ears.
Do you mean Servlin or Ginka?
I think it's the, I don't know why I'm touching my ear when I'm telling you this.
I think it's the ank anchor, the ank, the Egyptian symbol for life, is that?
Yeah, I just thought I was in line in line with the episode.
I think so.
I'm not, makes sense.
Yeah, yeah, a little bit automatic.
I mean, I think that might be one of the reasons why seriously is my favourite.
I mean, there's a multitude of lyrics, but...
I mean, maybe.
The primacy of Servolan in the action.
This is the 3rd episode out of 5 that she's after the Liberator, which you would think would get boring, but because it's her and because she's trying all different things, it's actually really great.
And this episode, I think, gives her more layers.
Not only the urge to procreate, which is an interesting insight into her psyche, but it also, it shows how psychotic and venomous shears.
She is utterly prepared to commit genocide just to get her hands on the liberator.
And there's no real military imperative, even though she tries to dress it up as that.
And she could have coerced them in any way into preparing her cloned babies, but she wipes out an entire race basically just to get Callie and the crew to detour there.
It's quite amazing.
Yeah.
And a nice nudge to the Clonemasters being mentioned.
That's the sort of world building that I forgot that Blake's having did.
They do get, they do bother to put in a line saying, since the Clonemusters are no longer available.
I'll do this.
Um, And after she's introduced the pathogen and people are dying by their 1000s.
She gets that extraordinarily wicked line where she says they'll have their narrow little minds on other things now and you think, ouch.
Yeah, it's quite, quite awful.
Does Ginka seriously, because Ginka is one of those great characters who thinks that it's the Ginka show this week?
Buttles, but isn't going, and she's going.
Yeah, pretty sure it.
But sometimes a character is sort of elbowing into scenes and it doesn't quite land, but in this one, it flows.
Is Ginka thinking that by the end of this episode, he's going to be president of the Federation.
I don't, I don't know what I'll do.
I'll double cross Servoland and then... victory.
I possibly.
I love her comment when, you know, in terms of being the liberator crew there, and she says, ah, then they're using teleport.
And I sort of went, well, don't they always?
Don't they always?
When do they when do they land the liberator or send a shuttle down?
very odd thing to say.
I'm interested by the fact that Servlan wanted to procreate by using cloning.
Again, that's interesting insight into her.
But she'd really want mini Surflands floating around sort of posing a threat to her as the original.
If she wanted babies, why not just have them with Carnell and choose some hapless surrogate from the slave bits of Ursa Prime to gestate them, that would make for attractive offspring.
Or, if we wanted a comedy episode, how about Jerry F. from Damba to use the donor, imagine that.
But yeah, it's an interesting thing.
Why does she want to clone herself?
I don't think there's a real reason.
There's just a Blake 7.
This is an episode that they want to do.
I suppose it's the vanity, the idea that splicing her jeans with anybody else's would be a downgrade, so yeah.
But, um, yeah, it's not really interrogated, is it?
It's just obviously she would.
Of course she would.
Yeah, didn't someone say, Avon or someone say, it's a gene bag or something, like, almost the, the, the suggestion that you, you create the clones of yourselves, but they kind of freeze the embryos or freeze the foetuses or whatever at a certain stage and don't, don't allow them to grow up so that you can then harvest them for genetic tissue or whatever at a later point.
If you know what I mean?
Like, you know, if she needs a heart transplant or something in...
So it might be a way of continuing her own life forever.
Yeah, I mean, I mean, they put, they only, she only, whoever it is only puts like, you know, 6 dollops of her blood in the things, and then when they open up the thing later, There's like a whole lot of them.
Slide blue, slide fryer.
It goes so quick.
He's once I prepared earlier.
Yeah, I wouldn't know how good it would have been if they, if some of the, some of the clones had survived and you could have multiple serverlands battling out between multiple serverlands, probably a bit over the top, but I think we got the right ending.
Which, yeah, is...
I want to know which actress played, played, would play young Shepherd.
The adolescent serverland.
How about the clone of Serverland marries the clone of Blake from Weapon?
How about that?
How all them being new?
All life is sacred.
If our on being neutral is technically Switzerland, then we're looking at a plot with lots of little children running around mountains.
Uh, someone in the, probably Cali in the Julie Andrews role.
I'm seeing a musical.
It's Heidi.
I'm thinking sound of music.
I'm thinking, oh, I'm thinking I'm thinking songs, I'm thinking Alps.
Oh, yes.
I mean, it is extraordinarily dark, I think this episode, even though there's some lighter moments in it.
Like there's the genocide and there's that scene where Surfland just offhandedly orders, a bunch of the sporting characters, including controller of airport one and controller of airport 2, to be taken out and shot, and they are.
They're just taken out and shut off the screen.
Yeah, they basically are.
Yeah, yeah, you one assumes they are.
Although they're all probably going to die anyway.
But yeah, it is quite brutal.
And done very, very casually.
And also, it doesn't really occur to me until after they're running away with the eskies at the end that actually the idea is that, yes, all of the population are dying. will die.
That's it.
Full stop.
The end.
They're not, they're not, it's not like, you know, the population will be reduced to a fraction.
No, they're all gone.
And that's quite, and taken out in the shot is such a fun.
It's one of those phrases that people use. sarcastically all the time. you know, I think so and so.
It's an idiom, not usually used as dialogue in a movie.
Yeah, it's not usually used as actual dialogue.
No one actually says, I think they should be, in a war movie, you'll often see a soldier saying you will be taken out and shot.
So for her to just say it so casually, very servilant.
But I kind of assume, I assume they were going to attack.
I assume whenever that, it also means take them out, take them off stage so that they can do an escape if needed, and we can have a little runaround recapturing, but they're not good enough.
Yes, when you realise they're not coming back and there's blood up against that wall in the corridor.
It's pretty dark.
I'm sad that because of what happens in this episode, because the fact that it is very big, like there's genocide, which happens, I'm a bit sad that there's no reference, no further reference to what goes down here later on in the series.
So Kelly will meet Servland or has the opportunity to meet Servland another 3 times in the season, and it's never really addressed.
I think it's kind of, it's a foolish talk, speculating that we might have had a female centric story in the 70s, but can you imagine how amazing it would have been to have Dana and Cali team up to take their blood revenge on Servlan.
And if you add in what happens to Terrence Brother in Death Watch.
What if they'd all decided to kill her once and for all?
And Avon was the one left claiming it's better the devil you know, because, you know, Servline fucks up every time.
Yes.
Yes, it was kind of a, maybe that's, that's a 2nd, a 2nd version of Terminal is is where, you know, throughout the course of that season, they've all developed a reason to, that they want, they won't want her gone. want her want her dead.
Not just gone, but punish. like, you know, killed slowly sort of thing.
And it's what makes that scene that's coming up in Death Watch, the one where Dana actually does confront Servlan about the death of her father.
That's what makes it so personal.
So you can only imagine if they'd actually followed it through, how interesting it would have been to actually have Servilan have to face up to her horrible crimes.
Yes.
So going back to the cast, and someone who, of course, you just mentioned there, uh, in the form of Cali, uh, you mentioned, we mentioned Jan Chappel.
And so she gets to play 2 roles.
So do we feel that her playing Zelda is sufficiently different?
yet the same?
Because I, I really like the way she, she delivers, delivers that different, different version of herself or whatever better.
The version that didn't go off to have adventures, basically.
Yeah.
And the fact that they are twins.
There's the implication that there's a lot more of them as well, isn't there?
That's not gone into.
Yeah.
Potentially, yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
And she's actually able to telepath herself with better clarity and more usefulness than she often does other people.
And we and we get what we're missing in Death Watch, which is which is them actually the 2 characters actually completely interacting, and thanks to the hazardous suits, that, you know, they do it quite well.
And they've chosen a suitable body double that is about the right size and shape because so often in these things, it's so obviously like a bloke or something.
Well, who can say that it wasn't Stuart Powell, just extremely turned to novelty from the camera.
Yes, exactly.
Yes, he's a dainty little thing, so yes.
I will say they have chosen someone with the same cheekbones.
Like when you see Zilda from... yeah, yeah.
Draw cheekbones.
When you see Zelda from behind when they're hugging.
The line of the cheekbones, it's like it's the same.
Height is Callie's.
Yeah, it's I was really impressed by that because whenever I see that kind of shot and Simon and Peter might know what I'm talking about, but Colin Pete, maybe not so much.
We had this tonight show in the late 90s, which was also a sketch comedy show.
And they had an ongoing segment called Charlie the Wonderdog, which was a piss take of terrible children's TV programming.
Um, and there's, they have Charles Tingwell in there who's a, who was a big um, 60s, 70s actor here.
And there's one point where his character is Gramps.
His asshole brother comes to visit and they're both Charles Tingwell, but the double is someone half the age and a different hair colour.
So whenever I see these jobs, I get that in mind.
It would be like if Zelda had turned up and been played by a decima or something.
One of the one of the blokes from ultra...
I mean, I think Chad Chappell actually delivers a really great performance as Zelda.
And I think it's a shame that she hasn't been used as well in the series as she might otherwise been.
I think she is this series, but last series, obviously, was a bit of a bit of a flop for Callie.
But this series, we get her being Zelda in this episode, where her being the alien in a couple of episodes in sarcophagus.
And I think she's really magnetic in both roles actually.
She's great.
She would, she, I, I feel so much, especially watching this episode that so many of the Liberator crew just don't need to be there.
It's like Tarrant, Dana, Villa.
They're just like, there's nothing, nothing for them to do.
And I, you know, but it's not that, you know, everyone gets the same point, uh, the same amount of stuff every week, but it's like continuously. like villas drinking, Terrence just bossing people about, you know, and it just feels, uh, uh, like, thank goodness Callie gets a bit more to do this time weekend, Zelda.
Sorry, Pete.
Yeah, no, and Callie has, yeah, Callie has to be the proper lead of this sequence, you know, going off and being in proper strong female lead role of actually leading the plot and taking decisions and things, which is just so often, I mean, this isn't a good episode for Dana, is it?
Am I forgetting anything?
Dana get much to do this week?
Dana does come up with the subterfuge on the ship to get Daryl over.
Yeah.
Yes, she appears from off camera.
Yeah, you know.
Yeah.
But I see what you mean, Colin. that little sequence on the ship is actually a really nice kind of B slash C plotty thing going on that you give to the characters that don't have the main story this week, but as you sort of saying, too often, it's the same people that are doing those the same characters are doing those roles.
It would have been so much better to mix it up a bit.
Although we'd all be booing if it was Avon. just up there operating the teleport.
I'm going to say that I actually think the crew is all very well used in this episode.
Obviously, sometimes have more screen time than others.
Jan Chapel and Paul Darrow, but actually, it escapes that series B plot of someone being left on the ship just to operate the teleport because Villa and Dana actually do have a fair amount to do in the story, being a board liberator.
And that's why I thought earlier, it almost feels like those crew scenes have been written by Chris Boucher, because he always uses the crew well.
He never leaves anyone behind, even if they're not part of the main plot, they've always got some interesting lines or something to contribute in a scene.
And I just think that those scenes are really great.
And of course, we get Servoland Villa interaction, which is so rare, and so amazing.
So when she's there saying having some degree of personal regard for you, Villa, I just jump for joy.
And I love that Villa's like, okay, uh, uh, all right.
Unless anyone's got a better idea.
I'm gonna give up and Dana's like, I have a gun.
I was forgetting that.
I can do gum things.
And Bill's like, oh, thank God.
Don't you love that the little gun that Serverland gives to Daryl when he's about to teleport award liberator is the one that she stole from Dana's vanity cabinet in aftermath?
She just keeps it in her handbag.
Oh, is it the same brilliant?
same problem. hilarious.
I love the way the props people were like, yes, but this works. canonically.
It does.
And of course this wasn't meant to be in the action, but when he teleports up and Dana disarms him.
She looks at the gun in her hand and you can almost read her as going, but this is my gun.
Yes.
What about the location work?
Is it strange that they're using a dam?
And leads polytechnic?
Oh, is that Leeds Polytechnic, is it?
It's all that beautiful 70s concrete.
We've got a great idea.
We're going to visit the mystical world of our on and where are you going to shoot it?
Leeds Polytechnic.
Leeds.
It looked I felt a little bit Logan's run watching this episode.
I felt like all the steps.
Yes.
Like, I just love the way they're sort of, they're jumping down these giant steps on the, on the video screen at some point.
They're just sort of going, oh.
Ow. just jumped out there.
Well, that's a I love that bit where they're running over the dam or the reservoir or whatever.
And I think that's a terrific piece.
Um, uh, filming.
And I like the model work as well, even though it's a bit bouncy when it explodes.
I saw the draw.
I think it all fits together.
It's a nice bit of, you know, it's all not wonderfully connected, but I do feel it's a good bit of world building.
And I just love to see 70s stuff outdoor stuff in Blake 7.
Yes Yeah, I think this is really, really well directed by Andrew Morgan on a macro level as well as the little flourishes.
It's extraordinary that Andrew Morgan's directing Blake 7 at this and yet it takes until, you know, 1987...
Well, of course, Andrew Morgan was, yeah, Andrew Morgan was meant to come back and shoot terminal at the end of this season and had to drop out, which is why we got the wonderful Mary Ridge, but also, JNT booked Andrew Morgan for time flights, and he had to drop out.
So he would have been part of Doc 2 off the back of their season.
Oh, wow.
Interesting..
I loved the use of the dam because it implies, to me, hydroelectrics.
And if we are to believe the hour on this highly technological, isolated but culturally advanced society, it makes sense that they'd be using renewable energy.
So you can kind of square that.
And as for the model work, I'm with you, Colin.
I think it looks absolutely amazing to the point that I thought, have they nicked this from a Jerry Anderson production?
It's like that looks like the air traffic control for Fireflash in Thunderbirds.
It's that good and the the spaceship model work is fantastic.
You know, it's all it's all along sort of right angles, but it still looks really great.
Oh yeah, that spaceship.
Her spaceship is brilliant.
It looks like it looks like a shot. like spaceship.
Yeah, yeah.
Is it the spy you loved me where one of the bond thing swallows another ship or you need to edit me out?
It's Moonraker, isn't it?
It's, um, uh, say it again with, uh, for your eyes.
No.
Sorry.
Say it again with You only Live Twice.
Oh, no, it's okay for you to correct me.
I don't need to read that.
I don't need to...
I was asking you.
But it felt like...
You only live twice where they sort of...
Yeah, pincer.
Pincer.
And let's not forget. the effects that Star Wars, the wide ranging effect that Star Wars had everything.
So those opening scenes in Star Wars where the rebel troop ship gets eaten up by the Star Destroyer.
Yes.
But it is an interesting kind of spaceship design that despite the fact that the gun makes the reappearance from PowerPlay or aftermath or other, it's strange that then this spaceship had server land ship never gets seen again.
Is that because she needs to, she's, she's utilised the kill switch on those and and they have to rewire the entire ship now.
You just burnt it out.
Literally don't...
Maybe she pressed the wrong.
She pressed the wrong button.
Just the self-destruct.
She calls it a command cabin at the start.
I don't know.
That just sounds like a little kiosk, you know?
Command cabin.
Boudoir.
You could have a grander name than that.
Come to my command boudoir.
I think they probably realise there's just not a very good model because it's introduced in volcano.
That's the only other time we see it.
It's meant to be in harvested, but they use the wrong model work and so it's...
Oh, hilarious.
I'm serious, that can then happen though, you know.
Is it in Moloch?
Are they following her spaceship there?
I think it might be.
Yeah.
Okay.
So we do see it a few times.
Yeah, it's a very weird design.
It will look strange.
Having said that, though, I think the going back to the effects work in this, I do think it's really, really good.
And when you get a good director who just understands the grammar of making something like Blake 7 or Doctor 2 in the 1970s, like Michael Bryant, or here Andrew Morgan, everything just steps up.
And so you notice that even the things that don't usually come off very well look immaculate.
So there's crossfades on Franton when she's made up with the disease makeup and then it's flashing in and out and eventually she's free of the disease and it's perfectly done.
Um, and Kelly is in shot when Dana and Pater teleport up and there's none of that kind of fringing or the change in position or anything.
It's perfectly done.
Just goes to show all you need is inventiveness.
Yeah.
Well, it's not just inventiveness.
I think it's that thing.
I mean, I often comment about, you know, directors of Dr. in Black 7 and stuff, the good ones know, um, well, should I say the bad ones are shooting the set and the props as if they look perfect.
And which is so, which of course they don't, so they look rubbish because they're revealed to be plywood and polystyrene or whatever, whatever else it is.
And I think those ones, like you're saying, Peter, the ones that understand the grammar of the show, I think they know how to shoot something in a way that's going to make it look as good as possible rather than having an idea in their head that, oh, this is the shot I had in mind.
I needed to look like this because those other guys know that it's just impossible to shoot it like that because it's just going to look rubbish.
Or it's going to take far too long for us to set up in the studio.
But I also think there's a certain amount of ambition there.
Obviously, it's ambition within what can be achieved because when you get unbridled ambition that can't be achieved.
That's Richard Martin in Doctor Who, and everything just, you know, falls to bits in the studio.
But when you get someone like Andrew Morgan, He knows that he, if he just lines it up correctly, he can do that teleport shot with Dana and PayTar teleporting up and Kelly actually being in short and then moving into the bit where they were.
He knows he can make that happen.
It just requires a little bit of forethought.
Whereas St.
Peter Moffatt in Doctor Who, whenever the TARDIS materialises, invariably cuts away to the shot of the TARDIS materialising and then cuts back.
It's just too much effort to have people.
Yeah, this is the director, does it?
This is the director who decided to have the Dalek spaceship descend into a London school by actually building a Dalek spaceship and making it descend from a giant crane.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
Can you imagine how woeful that would have looked with even 1987 Chroma key?
I mean, even when he directs Time and the Rani, on the on the Blu-ray for that, there are loads of moments on the location shooting where he's sort of calling for a shot to be redone and the subtext of what he's doing is, no, no, no, it's okay.
It's fine, but it's not good enough.
And considering, you know, I love time in the Rani, but no one considers it to be the best ever Doctor Who story, but visually it's fantastic.
It's very unquestionably, it's very well made.
It's very well directed, yes, even though the rest of it is rubbish.
But, you know, that's an, that's an argument for another, that's an argument for a different podcast, I suspect.
Can I just say, though, on the subject of Andrew Morgan.
He does do one shot, which doesn't quite come off, but I think is really fascinating, and that is the early shot of the camera panning at a very high angle across the flight deck to give you the impression of the liberator moving through shot.
I think it's really well done.
It doesn't quite work, but it's indicative of the fact that he was thinking differently about how to shoot this set, the weakness of the last 3 series.
It's a bit wobbly and it's cut right before the camera crashes into the wall.
I think the camera actually slows down a little bit at the end and that's you give.
You just said to them, you stand there, you stand there.
You don't need to do anything.
Just stand about.
And it's Dana's kind of like rock solid, sort of standing still.
And then they just, they do that.
But I agree.
I think it's got, as you said, earlier, Pete, flourishes like that.
I think what lets it down slightly is that if I'd been directing it, I would have had the shot of the liberator model moving from left to right and cut to the camera, moving in the same direction so that you got that through idea of the fact that this is what you're saying.
I think that's what it's missing, but still, it's pretty good.
We touched on the kind of diverse casting of for Ginka.
But I'd be curious to know, do you think that the character of Franton was always supposed to be a woman?
It's interesting.
I mean, Blake 7 often does better than Doctor Who of the era does with casting with writing female roles and casting them.
But yeah, interesting.
Yeah, I mean, considering that the Franton that Serverland is expecting is a grey-haired older man who, it turns out, has died since her intelligence came in, um, that seems an odd choice rather than just have have a picture of Franton as a woman as she is in the story.
Oh, it's his daughter.
Oh, and she was, she was born of a natural birth, not cloned, and that doesn't, that plot point doesn't particularly go anywhere.
So, yeah, I do wonder, Cole.
I think it's good.
It's a great question.
I think it's a good bit of background.
I don't know how they managed to weave it in.
Just so why don't we have it a man and then a woman and then explain, da, da, da.
It does give you a bit more of a background, like, we only just invented this process maybe 30 years ago.
So, um, here's here's why, but it doesn't perhaps lead anywhere.
I'm just glad it's, I'm glad it's her.
I think she's pretty good in it.
Although I'm sure she calls Kelly Kelly. she's going off camera or something.
I think definitely the implication we went to take away from it is that Cali and her group was one of the earliest cloned groups that they have because it seems that controller of Airport one and controller of Airport 2 are maybe in their mid 40s, whereas Cali's kind of in her mid to late 20s.
And so I think that's sort of where the line is.
Yeah, Peter, just remember how old we are.
I think they're in the mid 40s.
I'm older than Ronald Lee.
I do remember someone we know recently having a bit of a moment when they realised that they were approaching the age William Hartnell was when he was cast in Doctor Who.
There's a Twitter account that tracks celebrities Meldrew points, the point at which they're older, they come as old as Richard Wilson was when the 1st episode of one foot in the grave went out.
Kylie Minogue passed it quite recently.
Oh, really?
That terrible realisation when you when you find out that not only are you older than when Tom Baker was cast in the role, you're older than when Ted Baker left the role.
Yes.
Yes, he doesn't look that good for that.
I just looked it up and Commander Radnor is in fact 59.
And looking great for her.
He's 59 there.
Well, that makes me feel a little bit better and yes, looking great for it.
He's got that snow white hair, which he had in seeds of death still.
So useless.
Already, I should say.
What the actor or the character?
The character.
I mean, maybe as well.
But he's just like, oh, well, maybe a dozen people survive.
You know, if only I thought about this.
We can't call it...
We can't call it people from off world.
Okay, fine.
We can't talk to the Federation.
Okay, fine.
We're not getting Allie back.
Okay, fine.
And everyone seems to blame him personally for the fact that, you know, they don't have resistance and they have an isolationist policy.
It's like, you know, was the head of government going to the controller of the airport and going, what should we do?
And he's going to go well.
I think he's supposed to be representative of the faction that of the faction who were in charge when that decision was made and shouted everybody else down, you know, maybe, I don't know.
Sorry, Pete.
I like I like when they're talking about Callie and he growls.
Oh, that young rebel. sounds so old.
Colin, what were you gonna say?
I have actually forgotten.
Roland Lee Hunt being ineffectual and a bit rubbish and you said, oh, that reminds me.
Oh, oh, that thing, uh, that plot twist where they're like, oh, fuck, there's another spaceship. you know, that arrived earlier.
It's like, why did no one tell us?
I think that's why the controller of airports tell them.
Why didn't Zen tell them?
Like Zen can detect a federation pursuit ship at 3000 spatials or whatever.
Yeah, it was...
Yeah.
But, you know, Orat called him a ward ornament and he hasn't been talking to anyone.
But, you know, it's a story that us is to look at things like neutrality and pacifism and whether sometimes you've got to fight, which is exactly what Kenny Rogers was doing.
Number one in the UK hit parade with the song Coward of the County at this very week.
Well done, Pete.
Always got his finger on the pulse since Blake seven.
Well done, yeah.
And of course, he is Surfland's playing it like the winner takes it all, which will have been up one leisure in the same year.
Very much.
Still a better performance than Meryl Streep and Mama Mia.
Oh, yes.
Yes.
I mean, it's just a fantastic episode.
I really, really like this episode.
And even though it's got some jarring bits.
It all comes together for me.
And scene by scene, I think the action is quite exciting and absorbing and with the best will in the world.
That's not always the Blake 7 modus operandi.
Just sort of expand your sort of echo that point.
It is one of those things where in some respects you could argue that it's got the same sorts of things that are wrong with it, which could derail a different episode, but for some reason, they're not, either they're not to the fore or they're not, um, you know, laboured on or for some reason, maybe other things are just so good that we just are happy to forgive the little few things that don't make sense.
It has Ginkka. all we need.
Yep.
And it has Ginken.
I do wonder if part of the success of Blake 7 is, you know, obviously there is a little, um, a little part of it, perhaps not to begin with, but it starts to respond to Star Wars, but everything else that responded to Star Wars was a lot closer to it.
I'm thinking Battlestar Galactica.
Jason of Star Command, um, you know, they were, we've got this, this evil figure and a ragtag bunch of rebels, but the rebels always win through in the end and da da da da.
Whereas Blake Seven is like, well, the rebels are still alive at the end, whether they've won or not is another matter.
And also the, also the head of the federation is evil but fabulous and our heroes don't get along.
And even though they've got the best spaceship, they're constantly on the run.
You know, that that set up automatically builds in drama.
And I have to wonder if maybe sometimes when things don't quite work and don't quite fit the tone, it's because no one else is making this kind of show.
So there's nothing for David Maloney and Chris Boucher to look at and go, would this work?
They just have to go, would this work?
And then go, fuck no.
Don't do it again.
Ben Steed.
But is that the kind of thing where, you know, you can, when you're talking, when they're talking to all there's other people and you can reference something, you can say, well, you know, it's like Dumpty Dump moment from Star Wars or whatever.
And because you can't talk in that sort of shorthand for people to be able to use as inspiration.
Yes, you're right.
It's sometimes it's like, no, no, no, that's actually not what we meant because they're just so off the wall.
One of the things I will say that I think is, is, is a weaker part of the episode, but for some reason, I forgive it, is I have to say that that last moment on the Liberator is probably the most Scooby-Doo ending of any episode, and yes, I don't care.
And, you know, it would have worked in some other episodes, but coming after quite a dark and dim episode, you think, what are you doing?
Yeah.
Yes.
I think the best line is Avon to say, yes, yes, I understand.
Zen maintained present speed.
It should have been Kelly on her own, in her room or something like that.
I think.
Exactly.
Yeah, we get that scene into episodes time where she's clearly ruminating on what happened in children of our on.
Yeah.
Yeah, I think it's not even the quite the script at fault there.
Like, I think it's, it's okay for Avon to make that little joke and the other 3 to kind of go, you know, that kind, that kind of little laugh and and then sort of have everyone go quiet and just get back to the game in front of them and have that pullout shot.
And it's a way of saying, you know, life goes on, but also this has happened.
So, yeah, maybe it's maybe maybe it's Andrew Morgan slipping up.
Maybe David Maloney, because there's a few episodes that end with an inappropriately big laugh this season.
Maybe it's David Loney saying, no, no, no, the BBC have told me to be happy because the actors, the actors are just dead behind the eyes for that.
Maybe it was the maybe it was the AFM on the studio floor with David with Andrew Morgan going, tell them to bring it up a bit.
I'm going, bigger love, bigger.
Happy smiles.
Tuesday night.
We don't want to send the kids to bed crying.
But I suppose he's supposed to be ending on and up because, you know, they have saved the hour and hour, at least they've saved the gene pool, so they can create a new world somewhere.
But yeah, I kind of wanted more of a with, you know, Calais sister being killed.
You do want more of a kind of an attack of the sub sort of end.
I think I think that's why that one struck me at the time is that, you know, despite the fact that they've won in that, you know, they've defeated the baddies, as it were, in other ways, many other ways they've lost.
And I thought it could have done, as you said, with that sort of, um, bit more sombre, bit more sobriety at the end. anyway.
I think this is the episode as well, and the season where they get the look, right?
So series series B is very operatic in its June Hudsonness and series A is quite functional, its look, but series C gets the look of the show and the look of the costumes just right.
Blake Seven has its own look that no other show has.
And I think you can see that here.
The regular characters all look like they're wearing actual clothes, even though they're futuristic clothes.
God, what is Tarant wearing?
Jesus.
Yeah.
And then there's talent.
Yeah.
It's like, yeah, it's like every week, one of the crew gets a shit outfit and this week it's Tara.
Let's just wait for series D where for half of it, Dana decides to dress up as slave.
Yeah, she does look her outfit in the 2nd half of the season.
Well, that's all for children of Auron.
Please join us next time for Rumours of Death.
Until then, rest assured that we know which ones were ours, because we felt them die.
I'm Simon.
I'm Brendan.
I'm Pete.
I'm Cole.
And I'm Peter.
But madam.
Madam.
Excellent.
Adam and Ginker, not Adam of the E. Anyway.
Get him.
Right.
There you go.
Switching to manual.
Maximum power on all drives.
Maximum power.