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This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 21:56:24

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Power.

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Welcome back to Maximum Power, the only Blake 7 podcast, which is now 100% more diapeticistic.

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Let's introduce ourselves.

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I'm Nathan.

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I'm James I'm Brendan.

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And I'm Simon.

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This week, we are talking about the series B, episode seven, which is killer, which is Bob Holmes's 1st script for the show, and it's directed by future Blake 7 producer Via Lorimer.

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I want to start an argument.

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Which one is the A plot and which one is the B plot?

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Ah, well, I've said other like 7 episodes have had 2 B plots.

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I would argue this has 2 A-plots.

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And that's one of the reasons why it's so fantastic.

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Yeah, I'd agree with that.

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You think it's just about stealing this crystal.

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And then the other plot starts burning.

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And as soon as I saw that ship, I thought, okay, this is another time squad.

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We're going to have men running around in leather gear, which should be attractive, but it's not.

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Aren't those the outfits from the tribe of the Sepatine?

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Yeah, but yeah, all the interesting bits cut out.

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What?

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Louise Jameson.

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Yes.

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Yeah, I think I think you might be right.

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Obviously, the virus plot is the one that gets the title, and I think it's probably the most surprising one.

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In a way, the getting the crystal plot has actually been done before last season in Zeke Locate Destroy.

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I would argue, and we'll come back around to my thinking on this, because it's at the end of the episode, I would argue that the other plot is also worthy of the title in a different way.

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Oh, yes, I was trying to make that work in my hand because you always want a title to be kind of, you know, ambiguous or applicable in all sorts of ways.

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So in that case, let's start with the 1st A plot then.

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Which is...

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Is that the double A plot?

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That's it.

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Which is obviously Avon and Villa heading down to the planet Phosphron to steal the crystal.

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Is this the 1st proper time they've been paired up?

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Without anyone else.

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Yes, probably.

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We haven't had gambit yet.

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That comes later and they're obviously paired up for that.

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But it does seem to be a particular Bob Holmes thing.

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He'll pair them up in gambit.

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He'll pair them up later on in orbit.

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Well, they have such wonderful kind of bitchy chemistry.

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How can you avoid it, especially if you're Robert Holmes?

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My favourite exchange. is the one where Villa says, oh, you know, I always knew you had a friend.

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You know, like, I said to myself, Avon has a friend.

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And then Avon's comeback is, and you were right, this must be a novel experience.

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Yeah, this is great.

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Great double act there.

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But once again, they seem to be only capable of teleporting themselves down miles away from where they need to be, whereas Blake gets to teleport down later, right into the middle of the base.

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Yeah, I don't know why that is.

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We have to burn some money on location shooting, I suppose.

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We had to expose the cast to it yet another nuclear power station.

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Is that what it is?

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Yes.

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It is another one.

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Like on the seven.

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Right.

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But but dumb Jan's not there.

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I think the girls refuse to do it after...

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Redemption.

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Redemption.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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And funnily enough, Jan Chapel actually had it written into her series C contract that she would not shoot at nuclear power stations.

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What a hippie.

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Wasn't she unpregnant at the time they were filming redemption.

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So she was kind of anxious about that.

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I mean fair enough.

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Yeah, close.

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She was breastfeeding.

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And she was told you're not allowed to have milk and eggs and she's like, well, can I have some?

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Now, the interesting thing about sending Avon and Villa in.

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And it's sort of a, it sort of really points to Rob Holmes writing style of Villa's there to give Avon someone to bounce off because Villa does almost nothing.

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Like when they're breaking into the base, Villa's like, Avon, how are you going to break in?

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And I'm just sitting there going, no, that's your job.

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Yeah, I didn't actually think about that.

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I hadn't watched it for a while and I was kind of expecting that it would be Villa's job to kind of pull the thing out, that I even would do all the computer identifying where the crystal is and that Villa would kind of pull it out.

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But he really just does seem to be there to kind of make snarky remarks, you know, as him.

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Yeah, which brilliant.

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Oh, yeah.

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There's nothing.

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Yeah, there's nothing wrong with that.

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It's just kind of like, you know, we've had David Jackson leave us because he's underused and now Michael Keating has to do a script where it's like, Villa's one job Avon does instead while shooting off witty bomb mos. ironically, it gets more lines in this episode than most.

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Yes.

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Yeah, it is a good episode for Villa, even though he doesn't seem to do anything.

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I mean, we've had that sort of bitchy interplay and that's sort of a hallmark of Chris Boucher's sort of editorship.

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But I get the feeling that this is homes.

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It doesn't sound like Bouchers.

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Holmes with a Boucher polish.

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Maybe.

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Yeah.

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Well, yeah, I mean, is it one of those sort of Russell T. Davey slash Stephen Moffatt things where the Robert Holmes scripts don't get polished as much as perhaps others of the era might.

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And I just think that I think that the interplay between them is good because I think Boucher kind of moves it up a whole other notch into sort of full camp sort of exchanges, whereas I think Robert Holmes, at least in this script, keeps it just the right side of the line.

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And I really, really like that.

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I think it's very, very cleverly done.

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For me, this is a turning point for Villa because I think Bouchers Villa, when he sort of bandying with Avon, Avon almost always gets the last line and Villa kind of looks a bit shamefaced, whereas Holmes Villa, absolutely is not phased by Avon's insults and just throws another one back at him.

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And I think it's, I think it's really effective.

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And so we meet Avon's old friend, as I alluded to before, Tinus, who has a terrible name.

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Terrible, terrible space name.

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Well, you call him Tinnitus.

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And who is dressed as a vinyl cockroach for this episode?

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Giant vinyl cockroach.

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Thanks, June Hod.

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Yes, the costumes are the most puzzling creative choice.

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They're also fabulous.

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Yeah, no, they work.

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I think they work better now than when I was seeing it for the 1st time in the very late 80s, early 90s where they just, I was thinking, my God, this is awful.

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She's got a job lot on a new type of like PVC and...

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I think that fabric, like that's obviously the kind of vinyl they were covering sofas in whatever the equivalent of freedom furniture was.

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Yes, it was all on discount.

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Or they just finished that colour and they had all the stuff left.

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Her last episode.

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Oh, is it?

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4 Blake 7, like she done 6 this season.

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Yeah, okay.

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No, I knew it was her and I desperately hoped it was her.

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And it is that thing that we talked about when we recorded Weapon, which is that they could just so easily have been wearing sort of space overalls or whatever.

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The fact that June decides to dress them in such a stupid way actually kind of makes it more Blake Evans, I think.

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But yeah, I mean, I said it was sort of puzzling creative choice.

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But I think the great thing is that she's actually thought about it.

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They actually logically all do work in their own way.

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And in a logical thing, like the firefighter outfits, fighter fighter outfits have the, like the sort of shield around them and the Michelin men are the, you know, obviously because they're, you know, quarantine and I'm not entirely sure what the logic is behind the brown cockroach vinyl, but it's still, it all works with itself.

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It's not like a hodgepotch.

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And I think that's that's good.

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Yeah, they're all kind of mental.

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I mean, the firefighter costumes are not really very practical because they have no kind of shoulders, like their arms are sticking out in front of them.

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And they're right, yeah.

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Yeah, exactly.

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Well, I think that may have been a failure of execution, right?

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I think that the cockroach outfits are designed so that Avon and Villa can put them on and then go in to the big room with the computer banks and be undetected.

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They kind of makes more sense if they landed on a planet where it was constantly raining with this downpour because they kind of look like sort of anorexy spots of things that you'd go out into a like prison guards where when they're trudging down the thing in the middle of the rain or something, you know?

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Yeah.

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I think we didn't mention the glass shot of the complex on phosphron, which I think is great.

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Yeah, really, really good.

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What's the deal here?

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He's an old friend of Avans who's been written into the backstory of the fraud that got him arrested.

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Yeah, the implication is that he was the other party in that fraud that got Avon arrested and had him appear in series A. Avon does say that his mistake was relying on other people.

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Yeah, and Tinus is the person he relied on.

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Yeah, that's definitely the impression I got.

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You know, it's it's not like in um, in series A, where suddenly Blake has this nemesis who is the person responsible for the 1st massacre, but Blake remembers it now, whereas Glyn, Glyn Foster, Bran Foster.

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Bran Foster.

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All Bran Foster didn't tell him previously. that, oh, by the way, you've got this nemesis who will come after you.

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Yeah, so stupid.

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And Tinus, of course, is played by Ronald Lacy.

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And yeah, he's quite a big thing.

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He goes on to be in Raiders of the Lost Ark.

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Oh my goodness.

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As the Nazi.

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As the main Nazi, yeah.

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Yeah.

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But with less hair and quite podgy.

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So he, I have to say, he goes downhill in the space of about 4 years, quite some...

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We all have...

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And he also may be familiar to some of our listeners as a, I think, two-time, possibly three-time guest actor on the Avengers.

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Ah, including the really great episodes.

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Don't look behind you and Legacy of Death, which also features Richard Herndel. in a glass coffin.

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Best place, really.

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The thing that excited me most was Maurice Barry as Wiler.

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Yes.

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Yes, isn't that incredible?

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So that's Maurice Barry who has acted in Doctor Who.

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Oh, Morris married the same Morris Barry directs, Tomb of the Simon, et cetera.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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I just assumed it was a different bloke.

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No, no, it's the same guy.

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God, he must have been a child when he was in when he was directing.

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Well, he's, yeah, he's a bit, he's quite old here.

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So he's he's Dr. Weiler.

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He's also in Creature from the Pit, so he appears on the screen as Tolant in Creature from the Pit.

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One of my favourite screen appearances of Maurice Barry is in Day of the Triffords.

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Oh my goodness.

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Where at the episode 2 Cliffhanger, Bill and Joe are driving a car and they're trying to drive it slowly, but a bunch of the people who've been blinded hear it and they're all hammering on the car and you get a great close-up of Maurice Barry is shouting, get the bastard out.

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I think my favourite Morris Barrett performances at the beginning of the original Tomb of the Sum and VHS where he sort of fades up and he goes, I worked on Doctor Who.

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They have at least said, let's just start that one.

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Sorry, we only have one.

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We only have one today.

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Clearly evidently.

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Mommy's closing.

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Yes, yes.

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Appropriate for 60s, Doctor Who, we only have one take.

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Should we should we move and talk about the 2nd A plot for a second?

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Which actually becomes the 1st 8 plus.

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Yes, yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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So I think that this is really extraordinary and that this is the kind of horror that Blake 7 rarely does.

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So we literally have a zombie here.

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And we have unseen aliens.

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Blake 7 doesn't reach for aliens all that frequently.

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And there is something really kind of bleak and terrifying about this, I think.

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But can I give a shout out to that autopsy scene?

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Because it seems to be one of the most adult sequences in any of these programs that we love and watch.

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It is so well done and seems so professional.

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Now, I don't know.

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Probably real autopsies obviously don't work quite like that, but at least it gives nods to the kind of procedures they'd go through, partly because of the execution, I think, I think, the way they tell that story and the way they certainly the way the actors are performing it makes it very dark.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Especially because Bellfriar is such a lovely character.

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He's great, isn't he?

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Like, even before Blake arrives, you know, he's being jovial with his staff, but also will occasionally go, oh, for God's sake, what's taking him so long?

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Hey.

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And he's shown to be a decent human being almost immediately when Blake arrives as well.

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He says, you know, you may have heard me.

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My name is Blake, because it's like, oh, but we're very forgetful scientist.

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Gabrill actually says whose name?

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I think is so great.

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It's a great performance.

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I love that character and I think that's he, that actor, give that role to someone who's thinking this is a space drama.

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It would be unbearable, but he plays it like he's playing in something like Secret Army or something.

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He's playing a completely straight part and I think the program is so much better for it.

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And that's when these shows, I think, get really good is when the actors are taking it seriously, as if it's quote unquote real drama.

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Yeah, yeah.

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I mean, he's so charming.

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The actor is so charismatic, I think.

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And he's got a great name as well.

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It's a great Bob Holmes name.

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You know, we've got Tiner space name, you know, in the other A plot.

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Yeah, Brule and Tack attack.

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For Christ's sake.

218
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But we have Bellfriar, who gets a proper sort of rather romantic sounding name that isn't a space name at all.

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And Holmes is so good at creating those names, I think.

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On gamble.

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Yeah.

222
00:15:34.559 --> 00:15:46.019
I like how he he's sort of set up that at 1st you think he's immediately going to go off to the space radio and tell Serverland that Blake is here and he doesn't.

223
00:15:46.080 --> 00:15:56.460
It's just that he's a kind of slightly stiff, awkward person, you know, and that subverts it, of course, because it's Tinus who makes that call. immediately.

224
00:15:56.519 --> 00:15:57.120
Immediately.

225
00:15:57.179 --> 00:15:57.539
Yeah.

226
00:15:57.779 --> 00:16:01.080
But I have something else to say about Gamble.

227
00:16:01.139 --> 00:16:09.480
And I think peaked over in the UK is going to be very sorry he didn't do this episode because Gamble is played by Colin Farrell.

228
00:16:09.539 --> 00:16:10.320
No, not that one.

229
00:16:10.379 --> 00:16:10.980
Yes.

230
00:16:11.159 --> 00:16:17.220
At some point, the IMDb credits got merged.

231
00:16:18.779 --> 00:16:24.000
And then that Colin Farrell's face was popping up.

232
00:16:24.059 --> 00:16:39.840
Well, that's probably why in recent years, he took a bit of a break from acting, but he has been acting in recent years as Cole Farrell, better known for appearing in a Doctor Who episode called Orphan 55 as Benny.

233
00:16:39.899 --> 00:16:41.759
Oh, you're kidding me.

234
00:16:41.820 --> 00:16:43.379
Oh my seriously.

235
00:16:43.440 --> 00:16:45.120
Gamble is betting.

236
00:16:45.179 --> 00:16:46.259
Oh my god.

237
00:16:46.919 --> 00:16:48.840
That's glorious.

238
00:16:48.899 --> 00:16:53.460
Which, you know, lends a bit of weight to Bellfryer constantly going, Gabriel.

239
00:16:53.460 --> 00:16:54.360
Gabriel?

240
00:16:54.419 --> 00:16:55.679
Gabriel where are you?

241
00:16:56.639 --> 00:16:58.559
It's in his contract.

242
00:16:58.620 --> 00:17:03.480
His character's name has to appear in dialogue. you know no less than 20 times, I think.

243
00:17:03.539 --> 00:17:10.079
So I think maybe if there's any choice, we have to we have to give this one to Pete to edit, but not tell him.

244
00:17:12.660 --> 00:17:14.519
I wonder if he knows.

245
00:17:14.579 --> 00:17:16.680
Well, he hasn't mentioned it.

246
00:17:16.680 --> 00:17:17.940
He didn't ask to be on the episode.

247
00:17:18.480 --> 00:17:20.279
Sorry, Pete.

248
00:17:21.720 --> 00:17:24.000
The other cast note I have.

249
00:17:24.059 --> 00:17:25.799
Yeah. is tack.

250
00:17:25.859 --> 00:17:27.599
Yes, who's terrible.

251
00:17:27.660 --> 00:17:29.460
Who is Colin Higgins?

252
00:17:29.519 --> 00:17:33.180
And now he does go on and have a longer career as well.

253
00:17:33.240 --> 00:17:34.500
You astound me.

254
00:17:34.559 --> 00:17:35.519
There's a Miss Marple.

255
00:17:35.640 --> 00:17:38.220
Body in the library where he's he's actually very good.

256
00:17:38.339 --> 00:17:40.079
Is he the titular body?

257
00:17:40.140 --> 00:17:40.500
No.

258
00:17:40.920 --> 00:17:42.599
Which version?

259
00:17:42.720 --> 00:17:44.519
The Joan Hickson.

260
00:17:44.579 --> 00:17:45.660
Yeah, a few years after this.

261
00:17:45.720 --> 00:17:54.539
But his big job before this was in Star Wars and New Hope.

262
00:17:54.599 --> 00:17:55.319
What?

263
00:17:55.380 --> 00:18:00.420
He is in the rebel briefing where he says that the thermal exhaust port is too small a target.

264
00:18:00.480 --> 00:18:00.960
That's him.

265
00:18:01.019 --> 00:18:01.859
Right.

266
00:18:01.859 --> 00:18:04.680
Because he was originally cast as Wedge Antilles.

267
00:18:04.740 --> 00:18:05.759
Oh my goodness.

268
00:18:05.819 --> 00:18:26.400
Now, after that scene, he was immediately replaced by Dennis Lawson, who is the familiar face wedge, until he still voices him to this day in projects and what have you, what happened was Colin Higgins was so used to doing television that he turned up to record this film, because the original Star Wars was recorded at Pinewood, and of course films do rehearse record.

269
00:18:26.460 --> 00:18:29.940
And so he didn't memorise the lines.

270
00:18:30.000 --> 00:18:31.799
He thought there'd be a longer rehearsal period.

271
00:18:31.859 --> 00:18:37.559
And he originally had a few more lines with Luke in that scene and then would go on and do the space battle and whatnot.

272
00:18:37.859 --> 00:18:44.819
And he had so much trouble getting the lines out that they just cut him down to that one line because that was the line essential for the scene.

273
00:18:44.819 --> 00:18:48.119
And then and then fired him.

274
00:18:49.259 --> 00:18:55.079
Because they had originally wanted Dennis Lawson, but he wasn't available for all the dates.

275
00:18:55.140 --> 00:18:55.799
Right.

276
00:18:55.799 --> 00:19:03.119
But once they fired him, they called up Dennis Lawson and said, well, can we get you in because now you now you only need to do scenes by yourself in the cockpit.

277
00:19:03.180 --> 00:19:04.440
Right, right.

278
00:19:04.500 --> 00:19:05.279
Yeah.

279
00:19:05.339 --> 00:19:07.619
So, yeah, it's it's a bit disappointing.

280
00:19:07.680 --> 00:19:08.640
Burn those lines.

281
00:19:08.700 --> 00:19:10.259
Yeah, isn't that funny?

282
00:19:10.319 --> 00:19:12.240
As an actor, he doesn't know how films are done.

283
00:19:12.299 --> 00:19:13.859
It's crazy stuff.

284
00:19:14.579 --> 00:19:16.619
He is not very good.

285
00:19:16.680 --> 00:19:21.299
So he is Tinus's sort of guy. that right?

286
00:19:21.359 --> 00:19:22.380
Well, he's barely in it.

287
00:19:22.440 --> 00:19:23.880
Yeah, there's one scene.

288
00:19:23.940 --> 00:19:32.640
There's one thing that ends with him doing just the most ridiculous, goofy, smiley response to some rather limp witticism of tinynesses.

289
00:19:32.700 --> 00:19:35.519
Is it him that sort of drags himself?

290
00:19:35.579 --> 00:19:36.240
Oh, yeah.

291
00:19:38.039 --> 00:19:39.900
Oh, right.

292
00:19:39.960 --> 00:19:43.019
See, I foolishly assumed that was a different actor in a different character.

293
00:19:43.079 --> 00:19:47.640
So much attention had I played to him. looks out at him if...

294
00:19:47.640 --> 00:19:52.140
All the fire stuff.

295
00:19:52.200 --> 00:19:53.880
It's airborne.

296
00:19:53.940 --> 00:20:01.259
And it's this, you know, like, it's making us rethink everything about viruses and we have an epidemic on the base.

297
00:20:01.319 --> 00:20:04.680
It's, you know, it's just like real life.

298
00:20:05.099 --> 00:20:26.339
What I find really odd is the way that Blake keeps getting given lines, which really, you know, they're medical people, one of them's like a, like a virologist or something. and they, Blake keeps being given lines, which really should be in the mouth of one of the doctors, like Bellfries.

299
00:20:26.400 --> 00:20:29.460
Yeah, why doesn't Bell fryer think to turn the air conditioning off?

300
00:20:29.519 --> 00:20:30.119
air conditioner.

301
00:20:30.180 --> 00:20:32.460
Yeah, yeah, yeah. for an airborne path.

302
00:20:32.579 --> 00:20:34.799
Or, you know, talk about plague blankets.

303
00:20:34.859 --> 00:20:35.640
Yeah, yeah.

304
00:20:39.599 --> 00:20:47.880
You see, it's funny to me, and this is the beginning, I think, of the whole Jenna and Kelly get left up on the ship.

305
00:20:47.940 --> 00:20:48.480
Yeah.

306
00:20:48.480 --> 00:21:00.059
Because the person who has shown the most medical knowledge in this team is Cal. and she's the one who knows the most about what she senses from that ship.

307
00:21:00.119 --> 00:21:07.859
But the show is called Blake 7 and, you know, Gareth is already thinking, why aren't I doing the RSC?

308
00:21:07.920 --> 00:21:08.880
So they give it to him instead?

309
00:21:09.000 --> 00:21:09.900
Yeah.

310
00:21:09.960 --> 00:21:13.920
The amazing thing about this episode is it was actually produced immediately after redemption.

311
00:21:13.980 --> 00:21:17.519
And so a couple of short scenes with David Jackson had to be cut out.

312
00:21:17.579 --> 00:21:18.660
Oh, really?

313
00:21:18.720 --> 00:21:19.079
Okay.

314
00:21:19.140 --> 00:21:19.920
Yeah, because...

315
00:21:19.920 --> 00:21:22.500
It was supposed to be like episode 2 or episode three.

316
00:21:22.559 --> 00:21:23.099
Yeah, yeah.

317
00:21:23.160 --> 00:21:24.000
We got pushed back to seven.

318
00:21:24.059 --> 00:21:24.720
Yeah.

319
00:21:24.779 --> 00:21:28.619
Meanwhile, Horizon, a couple of weeks ago was meant to come after pressure point.

320
00:21:28.680 --> 00:21:29.579
Right.

321
00:21:29.640 --> 00:21:33.240
But they'd already decided to move it up before they filmed.

322
00:21:33.299 --> 00:21:40.259
But that's why when they all beamed down to the planet. everyone else is sent to the mines and Gan is just strung up on a wall because he's like, he doesn't have any lines.

323
00:21:40.259 --> 00:21:44.819
And I was just kind of going, yeah, but he's the strongest person and he's like, mine.

324
00:21:45.539 --> 00:21:47.579
It doesn't have to happen.

325
00:21:47.640 --> 00:21:49.019
It doesn't usually happen.

326
00:21:49.019 --> 00:21:52.799
It's the strong silent time.

327
00:21:52.859 --> 00:21:53.220
Yeah.

328
00:21:53.220 --> 00:21:57.720
But yeah, I think I think sort of Gan scene was beaming down.

329
00:21:57.779 --> 00:22:02.700
Sorry, putting down Avon and Villa.

330
00:22:02.759 --> 00:22:03.539
Right.

331
00:22:03.599 --> 00:22:06.180
I actually quite like the way that Callie does that.

332
00:22:06.240 --> 00:22:17.460
You know, like Avon is sort of a bit brisk with her and says, you know, do it quickly and so she just does it immediately before they have the chance to turn around and face the camera. you know before beaming down.

333
00:22:17.519 --> 00:22:19.259
It's a thing.

334
00:22:19.319 --> 00:22:22.019
I think that's sort of cute and she gives a little impish sort of thing.

335
00:22:22.079 --> 00:22:25.319
And I quite like the way that she detects the thing.

336
00:22:25.440 --> 00:22:29.640
She has an important plot role, even she doesn't do anything very much.

337
00:22:29.700 --> 00:22:33.839
Unlike Jenna, who just gets stroppy at Blake.

338
00:22:33.900 --> 00:22:36.900
And then apologise for being a mouthy woman.

339
00:22:37.380 --> 00:22:40.500
Sorry, I'm being I'm being melatraumatic.

340
00:22:41.640 --> 00:22:49.799
That thing, because it's a zombie, her she has to detect it because it's kind of supernatural.

341
00:22:49.859 --> 00:22:52.380
And so it's her telepathy that finds it.

342
00:22:52.440 --> 00:22:55.680
If they just scanned it and found signs of life.

343
00:22:55.740 --> 00:22:57.539
That would have been much more boring.

344
00:22:57.599 --> 00:23:04.859
And the body in that autopsy scene that you mentioned before, Simon, is gruesome.

345
00:23:04.920 --> 00:23:09.240
Like the feet where the bits of it are spray painted black.

346
00:23:09.240 --> 00:23:14.700
And and the way that um, Weiler describes what's happening.

347
00:23:14.759 --> 00:23:18.119
You know, the eyeballs are soft.

348
00:23:18.180 --> 00:23:18.720
Yes.

349
00:23:18.779 --> 00:23:21.839
That's so gross, and the fingernails are loose.

350
00:23:21.900 --> 00:23:23.519
Yes, yes, yes.

351
00:23:23.579 --> 00:23:24.059
Yucky.

352
00:23:24.180 --> 00:23:25.680
Yucky. actually yucky.

353
00:23:25.740 --> 00:23:27.539
Yeah, but in a good way.

354
00:23:27.599 --> 00:23:28.980
Yucky, not because it's gore, but yucky.

355
00:23:28.980 --> 00:23:29.940
It's just the words.

356
00:23:30.000 --> 00:23:31.200
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

357
00:23:31.259 --> 00:23:33.960
All that technical terminology as well.

358
00:23:34.019 --> 00:23:37.440
And I think Holmes does do that very well.

359
00:23:37.500 --> 00:23:40.319
He does lots of techno babble, but it's all real.

360
00:23:40.380 --> 00:23:43.559
You know, words like biologis and prophylaxis and stuff like that.

361
00:23:43.740 --> 00:23:48.900
And, you know, names of bones and all of those kinds of things.

362
00:23:48.960 --> 00:23:53.640
And I think the TP crystal technobabble is pretty good as well.

363
00:23:53.700 --> 00:23:56.819
And he doesn't use technobabble.

364
00:23:56.880 --> 00:24:06.720
I mean, he uses it, not really to convey information, but to convey character stuff, to make Wyler and Bellfry seem like plausible doctors.

365
00:24:06.779 --> 00:24:08.279
It's not the resolution.

366
00:24:08.339 --> 00:24:12.059
It's not the explanation as to why this is all happening.

367
00:24:12.119 --> 00:24:13.259
It's just it's window dressing.

368
00:24:13.319 --> 00:24:14.339
Yeah, yeah.

369
00:24:14.400 --> 00:24:15.240
It's character stuff.

370
00:24:15.359 --> 00:24:16.319
I think it's so good.

371
00:24:16.380 --> 00:24:19.680
It's the thing that Holmes does is he creates a bigger world.

372
00:24:19.740 --> 00:24:20.700
Yes.

373
00:24:20.759 --> 00:24:22.140
There is a bigger, and that's the thing.

374
00:24:22.200 --> 00:24:24.539
Yeah, you feel like there is a bigger world There is a whole base there.

375
00:24:24.599 --> 00:24:29.160
There's a whole institute of people doing all these different projects and works and I believe it.

376
00:24:29.220 --> 00:24:31.859
I don't just think it's all just 3 rooms.

377
00:24:31.920 --> 00:24:37.079
Well, and they talk about a space plague and, you know, there's a name for it.

378
00:24:37.140 --> 00:24:38.880
I can't remember what.

379
00:24:38.940 --> 00:24:39.960
No, no, no, no.

380
00:24:40.019 --> 00:24:42.539
There's a previous outbreak that gets referred to.

381
00:24:42.599 --> 00:24:43.980
So there's some kind of history.

382
00:24:44.039 --> 00:24:49.980
And he brings in things that have never been in a Blake 7 before.

383
00:24:50.039 --> 00:24:58.980
So we've never had any real idea of when this is set, when is Blake 7 set in the 3rd century of the 2nd calendar or whatever.

384
00:24:59.039 --> 00:25:03.660
Yeah, and and the ship, the, is it the Wanderer class or something like that?

385
00:25:03.779 --> 00:25:07.079
Yeah, in space for 700 years.

386
00:25:07.140 --> 00:25:11.519
It's one of the 1st Space Explorers, which probably sets this somewhere around the 30th century.

387
00:25:11.640 --> 00:25:17.339
Yeah, and so and so we start to get a sort of real history as well.

388
00:25:17.400 --> 00:25:25.619
And referring to Lord Jeffrey Ashley, you know, some pre-space thing, which would never have happened in Blake 7 before.

389
00:25:25.680 --> 00:25:27.960
Have they ever referred to anything from Earth?

390
00:25:28.019 --> 00:25:28.980
history ever.

391
00:25:29.039 --> 00:25:32.819
And sandwiches and pickle barrels.

392
00:25:34.859 --> 00:25:36.480
Yes, yeah.

393
00:25:36.480 --> 00:25:38.339
Like, it's very homesy.

394
00:25:38.400 --> 00:25:42.779
And that 61 Signi thing, which I think is properly terrifying.

395
00:25:42.900 --> 00:25:45.059
Like, I think the zombie is terrifying.

396
00:25:45.119 --> 00:25:54.900
But I think the idea that there's something that is trying to confine us to our own planet, and we don't know what it is, I think it's really properly frightening.

397
00:25:54.900 --> 00:26:01.500
The great other name for the area of space as well, the darklings.

398
00:26:01.559 --> 00:26:01.920
Yeah, yeah.

399
00:26:01.980 --> 00:26:08.759
Oh, the Terran ague as well, the word ague, which is sort of Shakespearean, isn't it?

400
00:26:08.819 --> 00:26:11.400
There's an Andrew Agu cheek, I think.

401
00:26:11.460 --> 00:26:14.099
So Toby Belch and Andrew A. and Gue Cheek.

402
00:26:14.160 --> 00:26:14.700
What are they in?

403
00:26:14.759 --> 00:26:15.240
I can't remember.

404
00:26:15.299 --> 00:26:16.259
They're in one of the plays.

405
00:26:16.319 --> 00:26:18.660
All I can think is David Agnew.

406
00:26:18.839 --> 00:26:21.480
But it's an old-fashioned word.

407
00:26:21.539 --> 00:26:23.579
So the Terran AQ.

408
00:26:23.640 --> 00:26:26.880
And it's a thing that they all know about, you know, the 3 day sweats.

409
00:26:26.940 --> 00:26:28.980
There's a kind of reality to it.

410
00:26:29.160 --> 00:26:33.900
But all sort of delivered in dialogue, which is relatively speaking, just thrown away.

411
00:26:34.019 --> 00:26:49.019
And that's why I think it helps that world building. world building works when those sort of aspects are thrown here, thrown there, they're scattered, liberally throughout, rather than there is a moment where someone says, well, let me tell you about this place.

412
00:26:49.079 --> 00:26:51.420
We have blah, and there were the 3 day sweats and all that.

413
00:26:51.420 --> 00:26:51.900
Do you know what I mean?

414
00:26:51.960 --> 00:26:53.220
Then that's just just terrible.

415
00:26:53.279 --> 00:26:55.500
And part of that, for instance.

416
00:26:55.559 --> 00:27:02.519
And it ties in with how the dialogue creates the characters, is when we're waiting for Wyler to start the autopsy.

417
00:27:02.579 --> 00:27:06.480
And Belfry, you know, has to intercom him a few times like, are you getting in there?

418
00:27:06.539 --> 00:27:10.559
And it's like from a pathologist point of view, what's the hurry?

419
00:27:10.619 --> 00:27:12.119
It's a dead body.

420
00:27:12.180 --> 00:27:13.980
Is there a line in there?

421
00:27:14.099 --> 00:27:15.180
I have done this before.

422
00:27:15.299 --> 00:27:16.740
Exactly.

423
00:27:16.799 --> 00:27:21.059
But so while they're waiting, you've got to fill that space with something.

424
00:27:21.119 --> 00:27:29.579
And so you have Bellfriar and Blake discussing what they do there without it being, as you say, the whole, hello, this is our secret facility.

425
00:27:29.700 --> 00:27:32.519
Would you like to see our decoding room?

426
00:27:32.579 --> 00:27:36.119
Otherwise known as the Chris Chipdle style of the script, right?

427
00:27:36.180 --> 00:27:42.299
Yes, but also the way Belfry deals with the personality of the autopsy guy. the way he sort of just says, sorry.

428
00:27:42.359 --> 00:27:48.119
You know, he's just, you know, he just adds to the to the picture that this is a real player.

429
00:27:48.180 --> 00:27:50.039
And it makes it matter when he dies.

430
00:27:50.099 --> 00:27:53.819
You know, he's got a, he is kind of well characterised.

431
00:27:53.880 --> 00:27:55.019
Yes, in a single scene.

432
00:27:55.079 --> 00:27:58.019
Fussy and annoying, you know.

433
00:28:01.140 --> 00:28:07.079
Now, obviously, we should, you know, a lot of this is Robert Holmes and, you know, absolutely full credit to him.

434
00:28:07.140 --> 00:28:08.279
It's a spectacular script.

435
00:28:08.339 --> 00:28:13.980
I just want to sort of reiterate the importance of the performances, but not just the performances, the direction.

436
00:28:14.099 --> 00:28:23.400
The one thing that I found, about I noticed right from the get go, was that everything is relatively speaking, quite subtle and moody.

437
00:28:23.460 --> 00:28:32.279
All the most of the lines of dialogue are delivered just a little bit a level lower than the sort of the heightened performances you often get.

438
00:28:32.339 --> 00:28:35.579
And also, the whole production just feels so much more quiet.

439
00:28:35.640 --> 00:28:41.640
You know, it's not just the music and there's less, fortunately, there's less Dudley, but when he interrupts, unfortunately, he really does interrupt.

440
00:28:42.000 --> 00:28:44.400
But also the set noise.

441
00:28:44.460 --> 00:28:49.859
There doesn't seem to use as much set noise as you often get clunks and footsteps and things banging and stuff like that.

442
00:28:49.920 --> 00:28:57.180
And I don't know whether that's just the set people doing a much better job or whether the sound people know to put the boom mic in a different place or what it is.

443
00:28:57.240 --> 00:29:03.480
But, you know, there's no, you know, random bits of noise that you, or few random bits of noise.

444
00:29:03.539 --> 00:29:08.460
I mean, the noisiest things are the vinyl outfits, frankly. which you can sort of hit hair creaking about the place.

445
00:29:08.519 --> 00:29:12.599
And also there is there is poise when people are delivering lines.

446
00:29:12.660 --> 00:29:15.180
There's often a little bit of silence.

447
00:29:15.240 --> 00:29:21.000
The lines are still said with urgency, but they're not, you know, line, line, line, line, line.

448
00:29:21.059 --> 00:29:32.160
Sometimes it's just often there's just a little bit of a pause before someone delivers a line and it just adds to the sense of kind of foreboding and and it just the moodiness of the whole piece.

449
00:29:32.220 --> 00:29:41.819
I just think those sorts of choices and those sorts of decisions cannot be understated as to contributing to why I think this is such a strong episode.

450
00:29:41.880 --> 00:29:44.039
Do we know what else he directs?

451
00:29:44.099 --> 00:29:46.259
He does quite a lot of Blake 7, doesn't he?

452
00:29:46.319 --> 00:29:49.019
I mean, he goes on to be the producer, obviously.

453
00:29:49.380 --> 00:29:59.519
Like, so, I mean, apart from producing series D. He directs a dozen episodes, starting with Signus Alpha.

454
00:30:00.180 --> 00:30:01.559
Okay.

455
00:30:01.559 --> 00:30:03.119
And cyclic destroy.

456
00:30:03.240 --> 00:30:09.480
Breakdown Aurac Redemption, killer hostage, countdown, aftermath, city at the edge of the world.

457
00:30:09.539 --> 00:30:12.180
There are some really good ones.

458
00:30:12.240 --> 00:30:16.440
Yes, and breakdown, I need to say. breakdown is saved by him.

459
00:30:16.500 --> 00:30:17.279
Yeah, maybe right.

460
00:30:17.339 --> 00:30:22.019
He is a good choice for series D, but I think he ends up being a bad producer.

461
00:30:22.140 --> 00:30:23.819
Well, yeah.

462
00:30:23.819 --> 00:30:27.420
But we're getting ahead of that.

463
00:30:27.420 --> 00:30:40.380
Well, maybe everything, for whatever reason, whether it's, I mean, via Laura, they all play their part, is what I'm trying to say, for however, however they get there, they manage to, I think, respond to the, maybe it's the script.

464
00:30:40.440 --> 00:30:42.240
Maybe they're all inspired by the fact that there's been some good.

465
00:30:42.299 --> 00:30:43.140
So they do take it seriously.

466
00:30:43.200 --> 00:30:44.220
And I think that is important.

467
00:30:44.279 --> 00:30:52.259
But I think so often, you know, there's either the director or the guest cast or the set designer or whatever. one or one or all of them will think it's a bit silly.

468
00:30:52.319 --> 00:30:59.160
And so they, they, they make choices which are not in the best interest of the show.

469
00:30:59.220 --> 00:31:00.180
Yes.

470
00:31:00.180 --> 00:31:00.900
For example.

471
00:31:01.559 --> 00:31:03.660
I haven't watched it yet.

472
00:31:03.779 --> 00:31:05.220
I'm so looking forward.

473
00:31:05.220 --> 00:31:05.700
I love it.

474
00:31:05.759 --> 00:31:08.640
I love it, but you'll get what I mean.

475
00:31:08.640 --> 00:31:10.859
It's not as bad as you make out in the episode that we talk about.

476
00:31:10.920 --> 00:31:12.240
It kind of is.

477
00:31:12.299 --> 00:31:14.220
I mean, you're right.

478
00:31:14.279 --> 00:31:21.900
It's not as bad. it's worse I mean, I've been finding that Brian Croucher isn't as bad as I had heard he was for years.

479
00:31:22.799 --> 00:31:27.420
Although if he was in this episode, um, it would be spelled differently, wouldn't it?

480
00:31:27.480 --> 00:31:28.140
be killer.

481
00:31:28.200 --> 00:31:30.359
Well, he would ruin it.

482
00:31:30.359 --> 00:31:31.019
Yes.

483
00:31:35.039 --> 00:31:43.500
They weren't really any particularly complex effect sequences or anything like that.

484
00:31:43.619 --> 00:31:56.579
Now, I'm wondering whether that means, you know, all the time that gets chewed up having to set those up and get them right, which means you only get one take to do the talkie-talkie scenes in the office.

485
00:31:56.819 --> 00:32:02.160
Whether that also helps give those scenes more time for them to be worked on.

486
00:32:02.220 --> 00:32:04.440
And that's one of the reasons why.

487
00:32:04.500 --> 00:32:06.180
Because everyone hits their marks.

488
00:32:06.240 --> 00:32:07.920
All the camera works much better.

489
00:32:07.980 --> 00:32:17.339
You don't get those things where even in, you know, the 70s and 80s, you get the camera doesn't quite, isn't quite, everyone, they don't quite hit their mark and the camera's sort of catching up and so focussing.

490
00:32:17.400 --> 00:32:20.279
And I wonder if that helps add to the level of overall quality.

491
00:32:20.400 --> 00:32:22.259
I think I agree with you on that.

492
00:32:22.380 --> 00:32:56.400
And also, I think the choice not to have a lot of special effects to, whether it was a choice where they just couldn't afford it, the choice to have certain things happen off camera, to use lighting effects to kill tinus, to not show the, they're probably barely holding together. zombie getting off the table. he's top comes up and you can see that he's actually a man in a suit.

493
00:32:56.460 --> 00:33:01.920
To do that, actually, that's some great direction.

494
00:33:02.339 --> 00:33:09.480
It actually like it makes the story stronger by not trying to show it all.

495
00:33:09.539 --> 00:33:10.440
Yeah.

496
00:33:10.500 --> 00:33:20.160
I have to wonder if Bob Holmes being the writer that he is, watched a few previous episodes and went, okay, I'm going to give you something that doesn't need explosions.

497
00:33:20.220 --> 00:33:22.680
It doesn't need video effects so much.

498
00:33:22.740 --> 00:33:33.180
That gorgeous model shot that moves around the liberator is one of the unused shots from Spacefall because you can see the London is attached by the umbilical.

499
00:33:33.240 --> 00:33:35.339
Oh my goodness, really?

500
00:33:35.339 --> 00:33:38.579
And it is used a couple of times, but it's an absolutely gorgeous shot.

501
00:33:38.640 --> 00:33:51.720
You can only just see it because it's sort of white, the liberators white, and I see that and I think, 0 my god, what might have been for those early episodes where the individual directors were like, well, no, I didn't direct that.

502
00:33:51.779 --> 00:33:52.740
I'm not using it.

503
00:33:52.799 --> 00:33:55.319
Someone should drop it back in.

504
00:33:55.380 --> 00:33:56.039
Yeah.

505
00:33:57.180 --> 00:34:08.699
So I think also that the fulminating blisters that we see, like the actual effect of the virus, which is credible.

506
00:34:08.760 --> 00:34:11.099
You know, it's attacking the nervous system.

507
00:34:11.519 --> 00:34:16.199
It's really, really gross and terrifying, isn't it?

508
00:34:16.260 --> 00:34:17.579
Yeah, it's really great makeup.

509
00:34:17.639 --> 00:34:20.639
Yeah, it's so much worse than what we normally see.

510
00:34:20.699 --> 00:34:30.840
I think that, you know, when Holmes 1st takes over Doctor Who, we get Arc in Space is his 1st story, where the monsters want to eat you alive.

511
00:34:30.960 --> 00:34:32.519
You know, it's terrifying.

512
00:34:32.579 --> 00:34:35.460
You know, they're not just rubber people who point guns at you.

513
00:34:35.519 --> 00:34:40.440
They are literally going to lay eggs in you and eat you from the inside out.

514
00:34:40.500 --> 00:34:40.860
Yeah.

515
00:34:40.920 --> 00:34:42.539
Like it's super terrifying.

516
00:34:42.599 --> 00:34:45.420
And this I think is just as terrifying.

517
00:34:45.480 --> 00:34:46.500
And it's funny.

518
00:34:46.860 --> 00:34:51.360
There's another thing about this where paper is a thing.

519
00:34:51.420 --> 00:34:55.019
I don't think paper is in Blake 7 before this.

520
00:34:55.079 --> 00:35:02.400
They're always handing one another sort of boxes and shit, you know, like, and so there's paper all the way through.

521
00:35:02.460 --> 00:35:09.659
And just about the 1st thing that Blake does with Belfry is give him a printer from Aurak to read.

522
00:35:09.719 --> 00:35:17.159
And that moment at the end is so unforgettable where he just says, oh my god, I've forgotten how to read.

523
00:35:17.219 --> 00:35:18.599
It's so frightening.

524
00:35:18.780 --> 00:35:28.860
And I think what makes that work is that the deaths we've seen from this all add a bit more to our understanding.

525
00:35:28.920 --> 00:35:33.659
So I think the 1st death we see from it is backs.

526
00:35:33.719 --> 00:35:38.880
Like, we call back to the medical office and backs his sitting there dead with the bus tools on his face.

527
00:35:38.940 --> 00:35:42.780
Then gamble, isn't it?

528
00:35:42.840 --> 00:35:43.440
Yes.

529
00:35:43.500 --> 00:35:43.920
Yeah.

530
00:35:43.980 --> 00:35:50.820
Then Gamble, who we see the seizure and we see him fall down and we see the pustules and whatnot.

531
00:35:50.940 --> 00:35:55.260
Then when Bellfriar dies.

532
00:35:55.800 --> 00:36:00.420
That's when we see more of the psychological effect of it.

533
00:36:00.480 --> 00:36:02.880
Like Gamble does... forget what he's meant to be doing.

534
00:36:02.940 --> 00:36:03.659
Yeah.

535
00:36:03.659 --> 00:36:07.199
But what he's meant to be doing is informing the guards about something.

536
00:36:07.260 --> 00:36:09.900
It's important, but it's not as important as reading out the cure.

537
00:36:09.960 --> 00:36:10.440
Yeah.

538
00:36:10.440 --> 00:36:14.639
And I think if we hadn't seen those earlier desks or if they'd all just been the same.

539
00:36:15.539 --> 00:36:25.199
The line, oh, God, I've forgotten how to read, has the danger of being melodramatic and silly.

540
00:36:25.260 --> 00:36:34.260
Yes, but it's not because there's sort of a fatal inevitability that that is what is going to happen.

541
00:36:34.320 --> 00:36:36.239
It's attacked his brain.

542
00:36:36.360 --> 00:36:38.400
Yeah, but he cannot read anymore.

543
00:36:38.460 --> 00:36:39.780
That is horrifying.

544
00:36:39.840 --> 00:36:41.280
Yes, yes, yes.

545
00:36:41.340 --> 00:36:41.639
Yeah.

546
00:36:41.699 --> 00:36:42.420
Yeah.

547
00:36:42.480 --> 00:36:45.480
It's just this buildup.

548
00:36:45.539 --> 00:36:51.840
And I think part of that, as you were saying, Simon, is the scarcity of music and sound.

549
00:36:51.900 --> 00:36:57.599
Like during the autopsy scene, There's no strings, there's no low drone as a buildup.

550
00:36:57.659 --> 00:37:09.300
You know, I think even in the late 70s, we've had George Romero zombie films, the audience at home are expecting the body to come to life.

551
00:37:09.360 --> 00:37:12.360
They're expecting like strings and attack and what have you.

552
00:37:12.420 --> 00:37:16.260
And instead, we don't see the body get off the table.

553
00:37:16.320 --> 00:37:16.980
No.

554
00:37:16.980 --> 00:37:19.559
Gamble sees it and shouts out to Wiler.

555
00:37:19.679 --> 00:37:21.719
We cut to Weiler and the hands come into shot.

556
00:37:21.840 --> 00:37:25.260
No, doesn't he see the electro encephalograph thing?

557
00:37:25.320 --> 00:37:26.760
That's what he's reacting.

558
00:37:26.820 --> 00:37:27.900
Sorry, you're quite right.

559
00:37:27.960 --> 00:37:28.440
Yeah, yeah.

560
00:37:28.500 --> 00:37:28.980
Yes.

561
00:37:29.039 --> 00:37:30.239
He sees the electrons.

562
00:37:30.360 --> 00:37:32.820
But yeah, we don't see the body get up and suddenly it's right there.

563
00:37:32.880 --> 00:37:36.119
It's so good And because it's an actor.

564
00:37:36.179 --> 00:37:38.460
It's very clearly an actor rather than a dummy.

565
00:37:38.519 --> 00:37:41.159
So I think we are expecting that it will get up.

566
00:37:41.219 --> 00:37:42.420
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

567
00:37:42.480 --> 00:37:49.260
But yeah, there is this inevitable sense of dread throughout that is so effective.

568
00:37:49.320 --> 00:37:53.460
And it's another example of it being more terrifying because of what you don't see.

569
00:37:53.519 --> 00:37:54.960
As you said, you don't see the body get up.

570
00:37:55.019 --> 00:37:57.539
When Tinus gets electrocuted.

571
00:37:57.599 --> 00:37:59.280
You don't really see tinus get electrocuted.

572
00:37:59.340 --> 00:38:02.159
You see Villa's reaction to Titus getting, like, cheated.

573
00:38:02.219 --> 00:38:03.300
And his hilarious scream.

574
00:38:03.300 --> 00:38:04.739
And like flashing light.

575
00:38:04.800 --> 00:38:05.820
Flashing lights and so on like that.

576
00:38:05.880 --> 00:38:10.679
But if you don't see, because it would have been worse if you'd have seen the actor going, ah, you know.

577
00:38:10.679 --> 00:38:17.159
He does slump to the ground, which I'm slightly disappointed by because I even did say that he would be so crisped up that...

578
00:38:17.159 --> 00:38:17.940
Oh, yeah.

579
00:38:17.940 --> 00:38:21.360
What's left wouldn't fit in a sandwich. kind of hoping to see that.

580
00:38:21.420 --> 00:38:22.860
Never mind.

581
00:38:23.340 --> 00:38:28.860
See, this is the scene where I think the other plot earns the title as well.

582
00:38:28.920 --> 00:38:30.000
Oh, yes.

583
00:38:30.059 --> 00:38:34.139
Because Avon has not been this ruthless before.

584
00:38:34.199 --> 00:38:35.579
Yeah.

585
00:38:35.579 --> 00:38:39.900
And basically, I think the other killer of this is Avon.

586
00:38:39.960 --> 00:38:41.699
You know, it's kill or be killed in this situation.

587
00:38:41.760 --> 00:38:43.739
Yeah, but Villa is unable to help.

588
00:38:43.800 --> 00:38:50.219
So it's all down to Avon and Avon's like, well, I'm just going to have to chuck him in the incinerator, basically.

589
00:38:50.280 --> 00:38:52.800
And we'll still get away with the crystal.

590
00:38:52.860 --> 00:39:01.860
And then when they are back up on the ship, Avon's like, there's a plague, Serverland's on her way, one +one equals 2 Blake.

591
00:39:01.920 --> 00:39:02.579
Yeah.

592
00:39:02.579 --> 00:39:06.840
Yeah. that kind of that kind of attitude.

593
00:39:06.900 --> 00:39:07.980
It's totally understandable.

594
00:39:08.039 --> 00:39:09.480
Paul Darrow is brilliant.

595
00:39:09.539 --> 00:39:13.199
There is sort of a gleam in there that, like, you know, this is 1st blood.

596
00:39:13.260 --> 00:39:19.679
Yes, he's, you know, he's shot people with a laser gun before, but that's very different from throwing them into a machine where they get electrocuted.

597
00:39:19.739 --> 00:39:24.780
There is a funny scene between Villa and Avon where they're talking about Avon's character.

598
00:39:24.900 --> 00:39:30.000
You know, like a thing where Holmes is taking the time to tell us a bit more about Avon.

599
00:39:30.059 --> 00:39:38.219
And it is funny that Holmes suggests that Avon's going to take over at some point, like as early as this.

600
00:39:41.880 --> 00:39:52.440
I actually think that this is an example of an episode which most successfully fulfils what I think was Black 7's original read, which was to produce an adult science fiction series.

601
00:39:52.559 --> 00:39:54.539
A lot of the rest of it is great.

602
00:39:54.599 --> 00:40:07.920
I love, you know, I'm not saying I don't like it, but I love it all, but when it's straying into the camp and the sort of silly, that's the sort of black 7 that's famous or perhaps infamous, you know, that's the stuff that we love and we laugh with, if not that.

603
00:40:07.980 --> 00:40:16.019
But it's adult in the sense that it's a thoughtful and well-drawn out story that doesn't rely on, you know, questionable villains or poorly executed action sequences.

604
00:40:16.079 --> 00:40:23.760
Now, I wonder whether sort of slightly younger viewers actually found or find this episode, you know, a little bit dull on the dull side.

605
00:40:23.820 --> 00:40:25.320
I mean, you know, there's a lot of talking.

606
00:40:25.380 --> 00:40:26.280
Well, there's a lot of people.

607
00:40:27.420 --> 00:40:31.679
He does have a zombie in a plague, but there's a lot of people sort of sitting around desks talking to each other and using things.

608
00:40:31.739 --> 00:40:37.019
So maybe not dull with a capital T, but less interesting than perhaps some of the other episodes.

609
00:40:37.079 --> 00:40:49.739
But, you know, and I think it is, it is certainly dry, and in the hands of a less good director, less good actors, it would be somewhere between dull and embarrassing.

610
00:40:49.800 --> 00:40:50.159
I think.

611
00:40:50.219 --> 00:41:02.699
But yeah, I just, I just think that the, um, that this is where the series, I think, could have gone further with because it is an actual genuine, genuine alternative to Doctor Who, which I think was the whole point of the program. was supposed to be an adult show.

612
00:41:02.760 --> 00:41:10.139
And an adult show doesn't mean, you know, sex, you know, yeah, it doesn't mean...

613
00:41:10.199 --> 00:41:11.519
Yeah, exactly.

614
00:41:11.579 --> 00:41:13.619
It means the plots are heightened.

615
00:41:13.679 --> 00:41:18.420
The plots and the ideas behind them are more higher concept, intellectual.

616
00:41:18.480 --> 00:41:26.039
The kind of place where StarCops ends up going, I think, perhaps less successfully, but that's where sort of you end up with StarCops.

617
00:41:26.159 --> 00:41:36.780
Because like it does have, you know, the pleasures of the, you know, the gross makeup, the zombie attack, the horrible pustules and all of that sort of thing.

618
00:41:36.840 --> 00:41:52.739
But it also backs it up with like a very terrifying, completely incomprehensible threat that is just talked about or theorised about and that we never see.

619
00:41:52.800 --> 00:41:54.599
And I think that's great.

620
00:41:54.659 --> 00:42:02.159
It is a shame that Blake 7 is a show that will create a whole galaxy and then have forgotten about it in the following week.

621
00:42:02.219 --> 00:42:13.139
Like, you know, it will obviously never be followed up, but I love that idea, like the idea that there's something malevolent that doesn't want to kill us, but wants to put a stop to what we're doing.

622
00:42:13.139 --> 00:42:15.539
And it's amazing, I think.

623
00:42:15.599 --> 00:42:20.400
And you know, they're playing the long game. kept this thing for 700 years.

624
00:42:20.460 --> 00:42:27.840
But I think it's more interesting to us as adults, whereas I think younger audiences aren't as terrified by that.

625
00:42:27.900 --> 00:42:37.920
I suppose to say we are, I think we think about it more and we allow ourselves to think about that sort of thing more, whereas I think if you're 14, maybe you don't, it doesn't sit with you as...

626
00:42:38.039 --> 00:42:41.940
I seem to remember being slightly creeped out when I 1st saw it, I think.

627
00:42:42.000 --> 00:42:43.440
And you saw it 1st saw it back at the time.

628
00:42:43.500 --> 00:42:44.099
Yeah, yeah.

629
00:42:44.519 --> 00:42:52.019
And despite being completely unseen and only theorised about these aliens are much more successful than the ones that appear at the end of the season.

630
00:42:52.260 --> 00:42:58.199
Except that I do like the sort of goopy aliens. you know, like the how goopy they are.

631
00:42:58.260 --> 00:42:59.639
I think that's kind of awesome.

632
00:42:59.699 --> 00:43:01.619
And I do think they're frightening as well.

633
00:43:01.739 --> 00:43:06.599
In, you know, they're a bit crap, I think, is that's probably...

634
00:43:06.659 --> 00:43:08.099
The Vardens of Blakes.

635
00:43:08.159 --> 00:43:11.519
But I think there is something frightening about them as well.

636
00:43:11.579 --> 00:43:15.480
Because again, Blake 7 doesn't do aliens, really.

637
00:43:15.539 --> 00:43:18.480
Apart from decimas, I guess, and stuff like that.

638
00:43:18.539 --> 00:43:20.039
But yeah.

639
00:43:23.099 --> 00:43:29.519
There's also the ending ethical dilemma for the crew as well, which is...

640
00:43:29.579 --> 00:43:31.320
Does that does that happen again?

641
00:43:31.380 --> 00:43:34.260
I'm reminded of... familiar, isn't it?

642
00:43:34.320 --> 00:43:38.940
Well, yeah, it is it is familiar in the way that the, you know, getting the TP crystallas.

643
00:43:38.940 --> 00:43:41.460
Is it TP?

644
00:43:41.519 --> 00:43:42.599
TP.

645
00:43:42.599 --> 00:43:43.320
Toilet paper.

646
00:43:43.380 --> 00:43:43.679
Yeah.

647
00:43:43.679 --> 00:43:43.920
Yeah.

648
00:43:43.980 --> 00:43:44.280
Yeah.

649
00:43:44.340 --> 00:43:46.260
I've tried to make a joke about that earlier.

650
00:43:46.320 --> 00:43:51.360
Yeah, it is familiar in the way that the getting the TP crystal plot is also familiar.

651
00:43:51.420 --> 00:44:03.300
This is a more interesting moral dilemma because you could argue, well, you could let server landland and you could you could get, you know, they could all get infected and hopefully they'll all die before the spaceship.

652
00:44:03.360 --> 00:44:03.840
Yeah, exactly.

653
00:44:03.900 --> 00:44:05.519
Or just as they're getting off planet.

654
00:44:05.579 --> 00:44:07.139
But the risk is too great.

655
00:44:07.199 --> 00:44:12.000
He said, you know, the risk to, you know, the entire entirety of humanity.

656
00:44:12.059 --> 00:44:16.739
I think the last line of the entire episode is there has to be a warning, Jenna, that has to.

657
00:44:16.739 --> 00:44:19.679
That was probably the worst line of the episode.

658
00:44:19.920 --> 00:44:22.079
They should have ended on a laugh.

659
00:44:22.139 --> 00:44:23.219
They should have all laugh.

660
00:44:23.219 --> 00:44:25.380
Scooby-Doo ending.

661
00:44:26.159 --> 00:44:29.219
Hey, Blake, is it possible you brought this thing back with you?

662
00:44:30.719 --> 00:44:35.340
I was standing in the corridor with a guy whereborn, for God's sake.

663
00:44:35.400 --> 00:44:41.280
I mean, for goodness sake, someone passed COVID in Westfield, Mondi Junction, unless contact come out.

664
00:44:42.719 --> 00:44:45.659
I mean, Villa certainly should be dead.

665
00:44:46.320 --> 00:44:53.820
I think what sells that moral dilemma, particularly, is the intensity of Gareth Thomas's performance.

666
00:44:53.820 --> 00:44:58.920
Yeah. his reaction to Avon, because, of course, he's seen it.

667
00:44:58.980 --> 00:45:01.500
Even though Avon was on the base.

668
00:45:01.559 --> 00:45:04.500
I don't think Avon ever sees anyone suffering from it.

669
00:45:04.559 --> 00:45:10.199
And Blake has made the point before where Avon has talked about attacking certain targets.

670
00:45:10.260 --> 00:45:12.480
Blake's like, well, no, there's civilians there.

671
00:45:12.539 --> 00:45:19.500
We're trying to free people. and destroy the authority, not destroy indiscriminately.

672
00:45:19.559 --> 00:45:21.059
So, I mean, that works for me.

673
00:45:22.440 --> 00:45:27.659
I think there has to be a warning would work if Jenna had some sort of reply.

674
00:45:29.280 --> 00:45:32.099
She'd had her 4 lines for the episode.

675
00:45:32.159 --> 00:45:35.280
You just had some mansplain the pot.

676
00:45:35.340 --> 00:45:37.139
Well, talking about mansplaining.

677
00:45:37.260 --> 00:45:41.460
The one thing we haven't talked about is the total and arta, lack of any women in this base.

678
00:45:41.820 --> 00:45:44.280
Yeah, that's homes, isn't it?

679
00:45:44.340 --> 00:45:46.860
Well, it's got to be the director as well, I guess.

680
00:45:46.980 --> 00:45:51.420
But any of them, any of them could have been cast as a female.

681
00:45:51.480 --> 00:45:56.760
Well, to be fair, there were maybe there were women in those Michelin man.

682
00:45:56.820 --> 00:45:58.260
But that's the thing.

683
00:45:58.320 --> 00:45:59.820
I don't think you ever get any female extras.

684
00:45:59.880 --> 00:46:01.559
No, it's all men.

685
00:46:01.619 --> 00:46:04.500
Yeah, it's like ordinary choices that are made.

686
00:46:04.559 --> 00:46:08.460
I mean, you know, it's, you know, it's just interesting that, you know, it just wouldn't happen now.

687
00:46:08.519 --> 00:46:14.460
I mean, it doesn't detract from the enjoyment of it, but it's just that little bit of, oh, that's just such a shame. any of them could have been a woman.

688
00:46:14.519 --> 00:46:16.079
Season 12 all over again.

689
00:46:16.139 --> 00:46:17.820
Yeah, yeah. at times again.

690
00:46:17.880 --> 00:46:18.599
Yeah.

691
00:46:18.659 --> 00:46:29.880
Now, I have heard recently that, you know, Philip Hinchcliffe and Bob Holmes felt that they faced a catch 22 because it's like Doctor Who and by Extension Blake 7.

692
00:46:29.940 --> 00:46:32.219
You're gonna have a reasonably high body count.

693
00:46:32.340 --> 00:46:34.019
You don't want to kill the women.

694
00:46:34.139 --> 00:46:35.219
You don't want to kill the women.

695
00:46:35.280 --> 00:46:36.659
So you just don't include them.

696
00:46:36.719 --> 00:46:48.239
It's like, I think, you know, a couple of weeks ago we had Jane Sherwin and Yolanda Palfrey. in pressure point.

697
00:46:48.300 --> 00:46:55.980
Now, one of them ends up dead off camera, but it's highly effective and it does make the world feel more real.

698
00:46:56.099 --> 00:46:57.599
You know what I mean?

699
00:46:57.659 --> 00:47:03.599
Because when I saw Jane Sherwin's character in that.

700
00:47:03.659 --> 00:47:06.719
I'm like, yeah, a woman as a resistance leader.

701
00:47:06.780 --> 00:47:07.920
Yeah, that's right.

702
00:47:07.980 --> 00:47:11.280
Kasabi, so we have no idea whether she's a man or a woman.

703
00:47:11.340 --> 00:47:13.800
Yeah, she's...

704
00:47:13.800 --> 00:47:21.119
And, you know, I know we had Avalon last season, but Avalon was kind of more of a...

705
00:47:21.119 --> 00:47:24.840
Kasabi felt like more of a real character is what I'm saying.

706
00:47:24.900 --> 00:47:26.820
It could be the performance. it could be the way it's written.

707
00:47:26.880 --> 00:47:33.659
But yeah, I think maybe, you know, gamble, as a woman, yeah.

708
00:47:33.719 --> 00:47:36.000
I mean, you wouldn't want to have lost that actor.

709
00:47:36.059 --> 00:47:39.000
No, you wouldn't have wanted to realise that actor specifically, but just conceptually.

710
00:47:39.059 --> 00:47:41.280
Yeah, yeah, literally any of them. literally any of them.

711
00:47:41.340 --> 00:47:42.960
But actually, I didn't realise that was the reason.

712
00:47:43.019 --> 00:47:48.780
I mean, maybe, you know, it's obviously going back to the era where, you know, women weren't serving in the armed forces in the way they are now.

713
00:47:48.840 --> 00:47:51.179
So that was just sort of like what they may have thought.

714
00:47:51.239 --> 00:47:57.179
But now that you go through that, you go, yeah, the female characters that are in the Hinchcliffe area, the homes, Hinchcliffe area, don't die.

715
00:47:57.239 --> 00:48:00.539
You know, Vara, Amelia Ducar, Betan.

716
00:48:00.599 --> 00:48:01.559
They all survive.

717
00:48:01.619 --> 00:48:02.219
Yeah.

718
00:48:02.219 --> 00:48:05.519
Whereas it's all the all the blokes get mown down.

719
00:48:05.880 --> 00:48:10.559
But everyone has to die, like all of the guest cars die in this one.

720
00:48:10.619 --> 00:48:14.760
Well, I just, there's no excuse for it.

721
00:48:14.820 --> 00:48:17.039
Even in the 70s, there's no excuse.

722
00:48:17.099 --> 00:48:17.880
No, it's poor.

723
00:48:17.940 --> 00:48:23.760
And I think maybe that's a little bit of kind of retrospective self-justification there.

724
00:48:23.820 --> 00:48:25.199
Yes, quite possibly.

725
00:48:25.260 --> 00:48:31.920
Also, look at the other dated kind of attitudes in this, in this episode, deeply problematic.

726
00:48:32.219 --> 00:48:36.000
Yeah, yeah, when they're talking about the smallpox blankets, yeah.

727
00:48:36.059 --> 00:48:36.840
Yeah, yeah.

728
00:48:36.900 --> 00:48:43.380
Look, I actually think, though, that we're in a situation where the germ warfare thing is bad.

729
00:48:43.440 --> 00:48:45.960
I think that reflects poorly.

730
00:48:46.019 --> 00:48:51.239
It's not like this is a thing that was good to do, but they're hostile tribes.

731
00:48:51.300 --> 00:48:53.519
I wonder why they got so hostile.

732
00:48:53.639 --> 00:48:55.679
Why would that have happened?

733
00:48:55.739 --> 00:49:11.400
It's kind of the dialogue does position the 1st nations Americans as being aggressors as opposed to an indigenous population who has been having genocide committed against them.

734
00:49:11.519 --> 00:49:12.420
Yeah.

735
00:49:12.420 --> 00:49:20.940
And, you know, Holmes then juxtaposes that with the human exploration of space and another race going, well, no, no, no, we don't like this.

736
00:49:21.059 --> 00:49:21.960
Go away.

737
00:49:22.019 --> 00:49:22.619
Fair enough.

738
00:49:22.920 --> 00:49:31.920
Yes, the analogy would have been more accurate had it been in the Native Americans would have given the infected blankets to the people encroaching on their land.

739
00:49:31.980 --> 00:49:34.320
Yeah, and that would have been more fun.

740
00:49:34.440 --> 00:49:36.239
Different attitudes, different areas.

741
00:49:36.300 --> 00:49:38.760
But it's interesting that the retrospective justification, you're saying.

742
00:49:38.820 --> 00:49:42.300
I think the real excuse is we just didn't think about it.

743
00:49:42.360 --> 00:49:43.800
Yeah, I think that's it.

744
00:49:43.860 --> 00:49:45.840
And that's just the way it was.

745
00:49:45.900 --> 00:49:49.199
And I think that the science fiction things were shows for boys.

746
00:49:49.199 --> 00:49:51.179
They're boys' own adventures.

747
00:49:51.239 --> 00:49:51.960
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

748
00:49:52.019 --> 00:49:55.500
In a way that is how it was seen without...

749
00:49:55.500 --> 00:49:56.400
Sorry, you go on.

750
00:49:56.460 --> 00:49:57.119
No, no, no.

751
00:49:57.179 --> 00:50:17.039
I mean, in a way that shows like this aren't now and have strong female characters, the way that, you know, Doctor Who does, where everyone in unit is a woman, you know, in Capaldi's 2nd last year, you know, it's it's just a thing.

752
00:50:17.099 --> 00:50:19.559
I think these were positioned as shows for for man.

753
00:50:19.619 --> 00:50:23.159
A few years ago, sort of at the height of gamer gate.

754
00:50:23.219 --> 00:50:27.059
There was a lot of research done into how many women playing video games.

755
00:50:27.059 --> 00:50:30.599
And it basically came back as 50-50, really?

756
00:50:30.659 --> 00:50:31.079
Yeah.

757
00:50:31.139 --> 00:50:37.860
It led to sort of other areas, such as science fiction and sports being examined.

758
00:50:37.860 --> 00:50:40.440
It's like how, actually, how into these things women.

759
00:50:40.440 --> 00:50:43.500
And a lot of the results came back like 50-50, yeah.

760
00:50:43.500 --> 00:50:44.639
51, 49.

761
00:50:45.239 --> 00:50:51.300
And so I think that's, you know, television, I think, moved faster than video games or even sport, really.

762
00:50:51.360 --> 00:51:09.480
I mean, the women's leagues have been around for ages, but it's only, and I can only really think of Australia because I don't take that much of an interest in sport generally, but it's only recently that things like women's basketball, women's football, in Australia have started to get as much prominence as the men's ones.

763
00:51:09.539 --> 00:51:10.440
Yeah.

764
00:51:10.860 --> 00:51:14.159
It's the way that we watch these shows as well.

765
00:51:14.219 --> 00:51:19.500
Like, we don't see gay characters, you know, until sort of new who.

766
00:51:19.559 --> 00:51:22.559
And sometimes we read ourselves into the shows.

767
00:51:22.619 --> 00:51:28.559
But I think, you know, science fiction TV has massive female fandom.

768
00:51:28.619 --> 00:51:35.820
And what must it be like for them to watch this stuff and just not see themselves represented at all.

769
00:51:35.880 --> 00:51:39.599
You know, we're a small minority.

770
00:51:39.659 --> 00:51:44.340
They're 50% of the population and they're absent from this episode largely.

771
00:51:48.000 --> 00:51:56.940
Well, I think we agree that this is a pretty great episode then, and we are, what, 2 this season?

772
00:51:57.000 --> 00:51:58.800
I thought we thought horizon was pretty cool.

773
00:51:58.860 --> 00:51:59.940
Horizon is pretty good too.

774
00:52:00.000 --> 00:52:05.820
I think this is better than Horizon, but I think they're both, for me, they're both very strong stories for all the reasons that I've stated.

775
00:52:05.880 --> 00:52:18.300
Strong guest cast, taking it seriously, an interesting plot which elevates things higher than, you know, bang, bang, shoot them up, sort of...

776
00:52:18.420 --> 00:52:24.659
I think it's more successful than Gambit, which we'll talk about in a few weeks time, which is also by homes.

777
00:52:24.659 --> 00:52:30.239
And I think it's because Gambit is slow and a bit silly, I think.

778
00:52:30.300 --> 00:52:32.460
I mean, it has charms all its own.

779
00:52:32.519 --> 00:52:35.519
It's home's doing a different type of Blake 7.

780
00:52:35.579 --> 00:52:37.440
And doing it well, I think.

781
00:52:37.500 --> 00:52:46.320
But I think that this, I think I agree with you, Simon, that's just the level of seriousness here, that really works surprisingly well.

782
00:52:46.380 --> 00:52:56.579
What I love about this episode is that I think we touched on this earlier, the fact that there are 2 A plots, those plots are actually really well intertwined.

783
00:52:57.059 --> 00:53:12.780
You think it's going to be, oh, what are they doing up on the ship and then it turns out that the whole thing comes together and the 2nd day plot completely changes the 1st day plot.

784
00:53:12.840 --> 00:53:13.679
Yeah.

785
00:53:13.679 --> 00:53:17.460
And that it's some really, it's a really strong story.

786
00:53:17.519 --> 00:53:18.900
I really love this story.

787
00:53:18.960 --> 00:53:25.260
I've been impressed with every episode, this series in some way or another.

788
00:53:25.320 --> 00:53:32.940
I felt that some episodes have been slightly unbalanced, but I haven't hated any of the ideas in them.

789
00:53:33.179 --> 00:53:36.900
This one's not quite a 10 out of 10 for me.

790
00:53:36.960 --> 00:53:46.440
I think what it what it's really missing, you know, aside for some better female representation, and especially for Jenna and Callie.

791
00:53:46.500 --> 00:53:56.519
But also there's just no not even any lip service paid to the idea that Blake Villa and Avon have been wandering around in a plague pit.

792
00:53:56.579 --> 00:53:58.739
Yeah, yeah, that'll be fun.

793
00:53:58.800 --> 00:53:59.460
Yeah.

794
00:53:59.519 --> 00:54:06.900
You know, I mean, it's the liberator, the liberator has this advanced stuff, just some stuff of, oh, you know, I've given you a broad spectrum, blah, blah, blah, you're fine.

795
00:54:06.960 --> 00:54:08.400
Thanks, Kelly.

796
00:54:08.460 --> 00:54:09.840
You get an extra line this week.

797
00:54:09.900 --> 00:54:10.500
There you go.

798
00:54:10.559 --> 00:54:12.179
Enjoy the extra 2 quid.

799
00:54:19.079 --> 00:54:22.320
That's all we have time for this week.

800
00:54:22.380 --> 00:54:29.280
We'll be back next time for some family friendly dalliance with our attractive cousin in hostage.

801
00:54:29.340 --> 00:54:30.659
Oh, God.

802
00:54:30.659 --> 00:54:34.019
I haven't seen that one.

803
00:54:34.079 --> 00:54:34.380
Yeah.

804
00:54:34.500 --> 00:54:36.360
So that'll be fun.

805
00:54:36.420 --> 00:54:38.039
Until then, good night.

806
00:54:38.099 --> 00:54:39.300
Ta-ta.

807
00:54:39.360 --> 00:54:40.139
Bye.

808
00:54:40.199 --> 00:54:40.920
Bye for now.

809
00:54:40.980 --> 00:54:47.519
Oh, and if anyone listening has the number for June Hudson's dealer, can you just?

810
00:54:48.840 --> 00:54:51.239
I think it's Matt Irvine.

811
00:54:51.539 --> 00:54:53.699
Switching to manual.

812
00:54:53.760 --> 00:54:55.800
Maximum power on all drives.

813
00:54:58.860 --> 00:55:00.780
Maximum power.