WEBVTT NOTE This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 21:50:32 1 00:00:03.660 --> 00:00:06.360 Maximal power. 2 00:00:12.419 --> 00:00:16.320 Welcome back to Maximum Power, the Blake 7 podcast. 3 00:00:16.379 --> 00:00:29.760 Now, we know you've all been desperately waiting series B, and we can assure you that those episodes are coming up, but we thought we would start with a very special couple of episodes. 4 00:00:29.820 --> 00:00:45.060 So hello, I'm Cy, and I'm Pete, and we are absolutely thrilled to be joined on this very special couple of episodes by Mr. Michael E. Bryant himself, director of 4 episodes of Blake 7, which we are huge fans of... 5 00:00:45.060 --> 00:00:55.259 Now, Michael very generously gave us a big chunk of his time, didn't he, Cy, to talk to him from his, he was in, he's in Boulogne, isn't he, from his... 6 00:00:55.320 --> 00:00:57.659 He's speaking to us from his basement in Blogne. 7 00:00:57.719 --> 00:01:01.920 The sound quality, unfortunately, isn't exactly as perfect as we'd like it to be. 8 00:01:01.979 --> 00:01:09.299 There's a bit of an issue on that, but Si here has worked some technical wizardry to get it improved as much as possible because it's such a good interview. 9 00:01:09.359 --> 00:01:16.379 We definitely had to press on and the show went on to make sure that we got that interview in the can. 10 00:01:16.439 --> 00:01:20.760 And so do bear with us if it's a little bit, a little bit rattly on the sound. 11 00:01:20.819 --> 00:01:23.939 We've done all we can to get it up to a good standard for you. 12 00:01:24.000 --> 00:01:34.560 Absolutely Hopefully, the quality of the interview and Michael's anecdotes and stories from working on the show will more than compensate for that. 13 00:01:34.620 --> 00:01:44.219 That's right We've got, yeah, coming up in this 1st one, we've got his, his, interesting revelations about his earliest influences about storytelling. 14 00:01:44.280 --> 00:01:50.700 His current horror favourites, his current, the box sets, he's currently bingeing, but then most importantly, we get into the Blake 7 stuff. 15 00:01:50.760 --> 00:01:52.500 We're getting to the creation of Blake 7. 16 00:01:52.560 --> 00:01:57.480 The extent of Terry Nations input, and what makes a genius set designer. 17 00:01:57.540 --> 00:01:59.579 That was a real, that's a really interesting talk that's coming up. 18 00:01:59.640 --> 00:02:00.540 Yeah, absolutely. 19 00:02:00.599 --> 00:02:03.180 He, yeah, that was wonderful to hear. 20 00:02:03.239 --> 00:02:15.300 And just to hear his memories of working on the show was something really special, especially as he hasn't really talked about the show as often as he has his Doctor Who episodes. 21 00:02:15.360 --> 00:02:25.680 Yeah, he was really pleased, I think, to be asked about this one because it's clearly some work that he's that he really threw himself into, even though his arm did need twisting a little bit. 22 00:02:25.740 --> 00:02:27.840 But you'll hear all about that coming up in this interview. 23 00:02:30.900 --> 00:02:44.879 Now, it's a cliche to say somebody needs no introduction, but if you're a fan of Blake 7 or loads of other classic TV greats, you will certainly already be a fan and as thrilled as we are to be welcoming to the podcast, a very special guest, Michael Lee Bryant. 24 00:02:44.939 --> 00:02:46.199 Welcome to maximum power. 25 00:02:46.259 --> 00:02:47.819 Hello, thank you very much. 26 00:02:47.879 --> 00:02:48.840 Thank you for inviting me. 27 00:02:48.900 --> 00:02:53.939 I'm actually invited to the participating from Big 7 event rather than anything else. 28 00:02:54.000 --> 00:02:57.180 Well, we're very, we love it all, but we're biased. 29 00:02:57.240 --> 00:02:58.319 Blake 7 is definitely our favourite. 30 00:02:59.340 --> 00:03:03.780 And you're just freshly back from a nautical adventure yourself, is that right? 31 00:03:04.080 --> 00:03:05.879 What? 32 00:03:05.939 --> 00:03:07.560 Well, yeah, I went off swimming for the summer, right? 33 00:03:07.620 --> 00:03:08.759 I had 3 months sailing. 34 00:03:08.819 --> 00:03:22.680 I went off, um, I went off, uh, around the, uh, from where I live here in Belong to, um, Eastbourne, Brighton and then into the Solent and then across to Alberney and then back along the French coast. 35 00:03:22.800 --> 00:03:29.039 I'm planning on taking my boat to the Caribbean, on the deck of a cargo ship, then you say. 36 00:03:29.099 --> 00:03:48.060 And I just wanted to make sure that I was still physically fit enough to cope with climbing up a 4 foot ladder up the side of the ship and getting the boat in winter from here and belonging to Southampton, which is 150 miles. 37 00:03:48.180 --> 00:03:51.120 And yeah, I actually had a marvellous time. 38 00:03:51.180 --> 00:03:56.699 I saw past the Sea Devil Fort, which will appear in one of my later videos. 39 00:03:57.659 --> 00:03:59.280 Brilliant. 40 00:03:59.340 --> 00:04:00.780 We know it well. 41 00:04:00.840 --> 00:04:02.699 The pulse keeps coming back to haunt you. 42 00:04:03.120 --> 00:04:15.060 We were wondering, what type of adventure stories did you enjoy when you were young and whether that had any impact on your career and when you got into becoming a storyteller as a director? 43 00:04:15.120 --> 00:04:17.399 Was there an inspiration? 44 00:04:17.459 --> 00:04:34.019 I'm afraid they learned to read to my mother's horror, and she actually, apart from school, took me to one side, or kindergarten, or whatever it was, to me, one side, and actually taught me to read, and then gave me a ticket to the children's, the children's library, which I just asked into that. 45 00:04:34.079 --> 00:04:36.660 I loved Biggles. 46 00:04:36.720 --> 00:04:37.920 Remember Biggles? 47 00:04:37.920 --> 00:04:41.939 W W W something John's was the author. 48 00:04:42.060 --> 00:04:48.180 There were loads of Biggles books, um, which I I divide like Madden, for I enjoyed. 49 00:04:48.240 --> 00:04:50.279 It was really nothing. 50 00:04:50.339 --> 00:05:02.100 Yeah, well, I went to travel school when I was 12, and when I was about 13, I was a movie called Chose a Turtle, which earned me enough money to buy a padded Bolex video camera. 51 00:05:02.339 --> 00:05:04.740 I've already got a projector. 52 00:05:04.800 --> 00:05:18.779 My parents had given me a projector, and I had Mickey Mouse cartoons, and Mickey, in black and white on, on scaffolding things going up and down, but I got myself out of my earning from this movie. 53 00:05:18.839 --> 00:05:27.959 I got my sort of play at Bull X, 18 metre film camera, which is 16 mill, and you split the film down the middle, and you stick it together, or it comes stuck together when you get it developed. 54 00:05:28.139 --> 00:05:31.259 And I instantly started making little films. 55 00:05:31.319 --> 00:05:39.180 So, I was always, I think I always wanted to tell, Full stories. 56 00:05:39.240 --> 00:05:42.300 You know, as a kid, it was my hobby. 57 00:05:42.360 --> 00:05:44.759 It was what I was just interested in. 58 00:05:44.819 --> 00:05:49.560 It wasn't a, you know, it wasn't a panic thing, but, uh, you know, I, I still actually got there. 59 00:05:49.620 --> 00:05:51.600 I still got the ignore metre films that I shot. 60 00:05:52.920 --> 00:05:57.000 I hate to say, it's something like 65 years ago. 61 00:05:57.959 --> 00:05:59.939 That's fantastic. 62 00:06:00.000 --> 00:06:01.560 Fashion world. 63 00:06:01.620 --> 00:06:04.379 You know, I'm reading, reading. 64 00:06:04.439 --> 00:06:05.160 It's funny. 65 00:06:05.220 --> 00:06:05.879 I read now. 66 00:06:05.939 --> 00:06:11.519 Um, I, I, in all my life, I've never been able to go to bed without reading a book. 67 00:06:11.579 --> 00:06:15.120 I thought we were going to bring a book, reading a couple of few chapters. 68 00:06:15.600 --> 00:06:28.860 And reading, reading books and then, you know, Connolly, Stephen King, um, that sort of thing, nothing too, nothing too high about, but quality writers. 69 00:06:28.920 --> 00:06:30.839 I sort of, I'm going to jump it out. 70 00:06:30.899 --> 00:06:35.339 I went through the zombie thing and I'm like, oh, no, if I need another zombie book, I think I'll scream. 71 00:06:35.399 --> 00:06:42.300 Reading to me is just wonderful and for me and it's very useful because it'll read quite quickly. 72 00:06:42.360 --> 00:06:44.819 I can sort of skin weed when I want to. 73 00:06:44.879 --> 00:06:45.959 I can spring read. 74 00:06:46.019 --> 00:06:49.259 So now I was doing something like a chain of 2 cities. 75 00:06:49.319 --> 00:06:56.399 Which, oh, I used to read sort of science fiction, uh, JF Fifthids, uh, John Wondon, John, brilliant. 76 00:06:56.459 --> 00:07:00.060 After all that, always been big and just a nice fiction. 77 00:07:00.120 --> 00:07:07.920 But being into speedweed, whenever one else Barry gave me a turn to assistant direct, I just got every single book. 78 00:07:07.980 --> 00:07:12.360 I went to Smith and bought every single book that was relating to that period in history. 79 00:07:12.420 --> 00:07:25.920 And for a few moments in time, I reckon I know more about that period in French history, and Dickens writing of it, than anybody else in the world, just for, just for sort of, like, 2 weeks ago. 80 00:07:26.160 --> 00:07:35.160 Yeah, so reading for me is, reading stuff like John Lincoln, I was trying to, I didn't expect him to ask for that. 81 00:07:35.220 --> 00:07:36.779 I was trying to remember the others in my word. 82 00:07:36.839 --> 00:07:38.459 I just loved all that. 83 00:07:38.519 --> 00:07:39.540 I've always been. 84 00:07:39.600 --> 00:07:44.160 I've always liked real science fiction. 85 00:07:44.220 --> 00:07:49.199 I've always liked science fiction that I, I'm not into superheroes. 86 00:07:49.259 --> 00:07:53.160 I can't watch, I can't watch civil heroes because I just don't believe it could happen. 87 00:07:53.220 --> 00:07:56.220 But I don't believe the Walking Dead could happen. 88 00:07:56.279 --> 00:07:57.899 I absolutely do. 89 00:07:57.959 --> 00:08:15.420 A friend, a friend who is much more intelligent and clever and smart and educated than he was for a few months ago, and um, And he said, you know, what, what, what, what, what do you do? 90 00:08:15.480 --> 00:08:21.060 And I said, well, I've been playing the last of us, part two. 91 00:08:21.120 --> 00:08:23.160 Yes, the last of us. 92 00:08:23.220 --> 00:08:24.839 Yeah, the last was part two. 93 00:08:26.040 --> 00:08:28.199 A PlayStation. 94 00:08:28.259 --> 00:08:32.340 Absolutely, yeah, brilliantly made stories, forms. 95 00:08:32.399 --> 00:08:34.620 I mean, it is superb stuff. 96 00:08:34.679 --> 00:08:36.659 It's a whole world, isn't it? 97 00:08:36.779 --> 00:08:38.100 Yeah. 98 00:08:38.340 --> 00:08:40.860 Have you ever seen Walking Dead? 99 00:08:40.919 --> 00:08:42.299 Because it's brilliant. 100 00:08:42.419 --> 00:08:44.580 And said, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. 101 00:08:44.639 --> 00:08:49.980 And so I turned it up on, uh, turned it up on Netflix, put it on guest. 102 00:08:49.980 --> 00:08:58.019 I'm doing it in the 1st episode, which, you know, where, where it all starts, where, where he wakes up in hospital, very John Wyndham. 103 00:08:58.440 --> 00:09:09.240 A lot of zombie books have to have this sort of hospitalised idea for people. not being aware of what's happening anyway. 104 00:09:09.299 --> 00:09:19.919 So he, uh, he watched the 1st episode and then he went away and I, I doubt he watched the rest of it was a bit too intellectual, but, um, I mean, I know, this is a really good show. 105 00:09:20.039 --> 00:09:21.659 He said, have a look. 106 00:09:21.720 --> 00:09:24.600 I've seen it her once and I actually said stream it. 107 00:09:24.659 --> 00:09:29.279 I then streamed about 10 series worth, I think. 108 00:09:31.320 --> 00:09:33.840 It does fall off in quality. 109 00:09:33.899 --> 00:09:42.120 So, so it's 2 11 are dodgy and I think I gave up mainly because I lost him. 110 00:09:42.179 --> 00:09:52.139 I lost interested in the characters because it was the characters in any production. which are so important, which make the production, aren't they? 111 00:09:52.200 --> 00:10:08.399 You would empathise within your love on Haythorn, or wounds by them or whatever, but you empathise with the characters, which is one, I think, the last of us works so well, because you empathise with the girl, girls, in that. 112 00:10:08.580 --> 00:10:12.480 That actually, to bring around to break 7. 113 00:10:12.539 --> 00:10:13.500 What? 114 00:10:13.500 --> 00:10:15.000 Was what? 115 00:10:15.000 --> 00:10:34.379 David, uh, David and Piano, I were trying to do with the very beginning of it was the casting, was which 7 characters, we have 7 characters to cast, which, David cast Gareth, the rest of them, the sort of, we would sit and talk about it, the 3 of us, we'd sort of discuss it. 116 00:10:34.440 --> 00:10:48.120 And the idea was to make, was to film a group, was to form a nucleus of actors who would have, because actually there weren't any episodes written at that stage. 117 00:10:48.659 --> 00:10:55.259 You've already preempted our next question, which was, yeah, when you got on board, how far down the road was it? 118 00:10:55.320 --> 00:10:59.220 You're still very much at early doors, you're still deciding who the 7 are going to be before. 119 00:10:59.399 --> 00:11:02.100 Well, how far down the road was this happening? 120 00:11:02.159 --> 00:11:18.480 Probably, if I'd signed a contract to do it, and I wouldn't have been having any discussions, if I hadn't, it was probably about, Eight weeks from getting into rehearsal with the 1st one, 6 weeks, maybe. 121 00:11:18.539 --> 00:11:22.740 That sounds terrifyingly short amount of time, but it was that normal. 122 00:11:22.799 --> 00:11:31.200 She had sold the project on his name and printed pages to the head of drama. 123 00:11:31.679 --> 00:11:33.779 And the controller. 124 00:11:33.840 --> 00:11:48.480 So, Twitter pages, and Twitter's name, Blake 7, and I think I read somewhere, maybe one more podcast or something that, you know, my 7, you know, why not 5, Blake's 5, instead you know, Blake 4, it wouldn't sound very exciting. 125 00:11:48.539 --> 00:11:51.720 So, um, make 7 sound exciting. 126 00:11:51.779 --> 00:12:03.659 And the idea also we would have this, we would have this sort of nucleus of actors and all the stories would be concerning these 7 and it would, it would go around the, the 7 of them. 127 00:12:03.720 --> 00:12:06.240 That was an idea for the ongoing series. 128 00:12:06.360 --> 00:12:24.360 But at that stage, there was this 50 page, there was this 20 page script and scripts were about, if I remember, Michael, there were about 30 seconds of paying each, I think it is, roughly gets you to a 50 minute, so there wasn't that, there wasn't that much. 129 00:12:24.480 --> 00:12:31.200 So that got written up into 50 minutes worth. 130 00:12:31.259 --> 00:12:44.460 And then there was an ongoing battle for writing, um, you know, Chris Belcher was turning with sounding and a really significant script, um, amounting to channel 12 pages. 131 00:12:48.539 --> 00:12:51.659 And Chris and David would take it from there. 132 00:12:51.720 --> 00:12:52.320 Yeah. 133 00:12:52.379 --> 00:12:57.299 Do you have a line like he walked down the corridor and have to put very slowly or something to... 134 00:12:57.659 --> 00:12:58.679 Oh, that's right. 135 00:12:58.679 --> 00:13:01.980 No, I mean, yeah. 136 00:13:01.980 --> 00:13:06.000 I've never mentioned a nation, but obviously I... 137 00:13:06.059 --> 00:13:07.620 No, never imagine. 138 00:13:07.679 --> 00:13:09.240 He never turned up anywhere. 139 00:13:09.299 --> 00:13:11.940 I think he just took an Indian round, really. 140 00:13:12.000 --> 00:13:20.220 He did my Dalek story, which was erected, because I mean, the Daleks look foolish, and he said that was what we got. 141 00:13:20.279 --> 00:13:25.620 But then, of course, when it was only, you know, because you were turned in another 12 pages, that Dalek story. 142 00:13:25.919 --> 00:13:33.299 And that's why the fans like it so much because they're, they're, um, they've got a thing with their wits because they've lost their their weapons, haven't they, Death of the Daleks? 143 00:13:33.360 --> 00:13:35.220 And some poor story, right? 144 00:13:35.220 --> 00:13:36.419 I can't remember who it was. 145 00:13:36.480 --> 00:13:39.059 Was it Terence Sticks for that one? 146 00:13:39.120 --> 00:13:40.200 Was it terms? 147 00:13:40.259 --> 00:13:40.679 Yeah, okay. 148 00:13:40.740 --> 00:13:49.980 So terms of sat down, both the typewriter, and they banged out some, you know, some more stuff and... 149 00:13:50.460 --> 00:13:54.600 Yeah, I, I, you know, I'm sure there's something, obviously, clearly they sent it to Jerry. 150 00:13:54.659 --> 00:13:56.820 But, well, anyway, I don't even read it. 151 00:13:56.879 --> 00:13:59.879 You know, I mean, we would just see some episodes. 152 00:13:59.940 --> 00:14:01.379 So, so, big seven. 153 00:14:01.440 --> 00:14:11.399 It was really, this process of writing scripts, and even as the theory, with the word. 154 00:14:11.460 --> 00:14:15.539 I can't remember how many episodes were in the 1st series. 13 altogether. 155 00:14:15.600 --> 00:14:15.960 13. 156 00:14:16.500 --> 00:14:17.399 Yeah, okay. 157 00:14:17.460 --> 00:14:19.259 So there were 13 episodes. 158 00:14:19.440 --> 00:14:25.320 I think there was one episode one, which is very different from all of the hours. 159 00:14:25.440 --> 00:14:38.039 Pennant's 1st episode, which was actually the 1st one we recorded, was where in order to introduce all southern characters, which were going to carry the story forward. 160 00:14:39.480 --> 00:14:45.059 And that, you know, that again, was down to Chris, you know, Chris writing it up. 161 00:14:45.120 --> 00:14:55.500 And we, And we cast the show in order to have these different characters in this ensemble, it's based on the lap team. 162 00:14:55.559 --> 00:14:57.779 And I thought it didn't really work out like that at all. 163 00:14:57.840 --> 00:15:16.259 I mean, we didn't know it was no workout, but, um, It stopped being very quickly looking apparent that, You couldn't have ensemble acting with stories that were interesting from 7 people, all confined to the same spaceship. 164 00:15:16.799 --> 00:15:18.360 Basically. 165 00:15:18.419 --> 00:15:20.879 Well, we, you know, hell you. 166 00:15:20.879 --> 00:15:25.860 We, we didn't know we didn't think about it. 167 00:15:25.919 --> 00:15:44.879 It seemed like a good idea at the time, but the reality, um, the reality came fairly quickly that you need to bring in other characters who needed other people around, so that's why the stories became more diverse with weird events happening based on other characters. 168 00:15:44.940 --> 00:15:49.019 Probably not quite so true, the 1st 4 or 5 episodes. 169 00:15:49.080 --> 00:15:55.139 But I think after that, You'll find those sort of starry characters that come in and really hold the story together. 170 00:15:55.200 --> 00:15:56.340 Definitely. 171 00:15:56.399 --> 00:16:04.980 So, did you feel that because you've done Doctor Who, that this was a natural fit for you, was that, um, sort of dating Malone, thinking and inviting you onto the show? 172 00:16:05.039 --> 00:16:07.200 They've also done Doctor Who as well. 173 00:16:07.259 --> 00:16:10.620 I really didn't want, I confess, I wouldn't want to do a show. 174 00:16:10.679 --> 00:16:12.299 I really wasn't up for it. 175 00:16:12.360 --> 00:16:17.399 I mean, David offered it to me and I went, listen, I, you know, I've just walked away from Doctor Who. 176 00:16:17.460 --> 00:16:29.100 I, you know, I, I've done my stint on Doctor Who, and I loved it and enjoyed it and learnt my training on it, but I didn't want to go on and do other things, and it felt like. 177 00:16:29.519 --> 00:16:49.019 The different dish of, because there's a description, you, of course, just, just, just, just, now, I, um, David, and, you know, and David even took me out to dinner, I think, to, um, Persapian surgery, this is, this is adults and inscription, Michael. 178 00:16:49.080 --> 00:16:53.100 This is more, this is not children's television, this is adults, no section. 179 00:16:53.159 --> 00:16:58.919 And I had written some sort of German and... 180 00:16:58.919 --> 00:17:06.119 Yeah, well, then from after dinner, the game, I went, yeah, okay, all right, yeah, I'll, I'll do. 181 00:17:06.119 --> 00:17:13.319 David wouldn't just surround himself with people like me and pennant who could do effects. 182 00:17:13.380 --> 00:17:15.359 You could do the technical sound of it. 183 00:17:15.599 --> 00:17:18.359 You know, eyes shut, easily. 184 00:17:18.420 --> 00:17:42.779 Not getting me. very long, who he admired as a directable view, has never done, Doctor Who had done sci-fi, but VI was getting the 3rd lot to do, and, um, and David felt that if Penn and I just got the show running, When Vork was shot in, and if there were any problems, that could, uh, you know, boil because sort of technical stuff out for fear. 185 00:17:42.839 --> 00:17:49.500 But in fact, you know, I think as far as I know, very well, I don't think I, well, I haven't seen the episodes. 186 00:17:49.619 --> 00:17:52.380 I've never seen my own recently. 187 00:17:52.440 --> 00:17:53.519 Thanks for you guys. 188 00:17:53.579 --> 00:18:03.119 Did you feel that the BBC was supportive because it's had a very BBC's had a very hot and cold relationship with science fiction over the years, mostly cold, as fans tend to feel. 189 00:18:03.180 --> 00:18:06.420 Was the BBC really behind Blake 7 as a concept, do you feel? 190 00:18:06.480 --> 00:18:07.500 Oh, yes. 191 00:18:07.559 --> 00:18:14.460 I mean, you know, Dr. Drew was very, very successful. 192 00:18:14.460 --> 00:18:17.940 And, um, therefore, if an animal writer comes along. 193 00:18:18.000 --> 00:18:23.220 Yes, and I mean, you know, they should be a race, but we don't remember. 194 00:18:23.279 --> 00:18:24.599 But there was a show called Moonbase. 195 00:18:24.660 --> 00:18:27.299 It was set based on the moon. 196 00:18:27.359 --> 00:18:30.000 I don't think it was particularly good. 197 00:18:30.059 --> 00:18:34.500 And then there was Much better one done by drama series. 198 00:18:34.500 --> 00:18:41.579 About an apocalypse, an apocalyptic world, and what people, the survivors. 199 00:18:41.640 --> 00:18:43.920 The survivors, that's it. 200 00:18:43.980 --> 00:18:47.579 Yeah, that was Terry Nation's previous Blake 7, wasn't it? 201 00:18:47.640 --> 00:18:48.900 Termination. 202 00:18:49.019 --> 00:18:49.319 Yeah. 203 00:18:49.440 --> 00:18:52.200 The survivors was very, very successful. 204 00:18:52.680 --> 00:19:04.920 And there was another one with Brian Marshall playing the read in it, which I've got, um, about uh, walls, walls, I love the idea. 205 00:19:04.980 --> 00:19:06.720 World retaining history. 206 00:19:06.779 --> 00:19:13.140 Wolves retaining, um, memories of what went on in the room, the stone tank. 207 00:19:13.200 --> 00:19:14.519 Yep, that's it. 208 00:19:14.579 --> 00:19:43.680 So, the BBC was well up for science fiction, and if Jimmy came wrong with, like, 7, a really exciting thing, maybe you can find in a spaceship with these 7 challenges, so it's not going to cost a lot of money, um, what you built was fantastic, and all the words, and here's a really exciting, 1st storyline, setting words in a post-apocalyptic world where, you know, all the clinches, so that you can imagine. 209 00:19:43.740 --> 00:19:50.279 I know, but it was wrapped up, absolutely enough to up, and we're very keen to do it, except, except for the budget. 210 00:19:50.339 --> 00:20:11.519 I mean, um, the head of drama of controller, having bought the show, just handed it worthy, um, to the financial head of drama series, who was a lady whose name I have totally forgotten, who called me into the office, and said, you want to put this number on this, Michael? 211 00:20:11.579 --> 00:20:13.259 You know, we'd have to start it. 212 00:20:13.319 --> 00:20:16.859 Um, it's basically, um, it's the software software budget. 213 00:20:16.859 --> 00:20:19.200 And, uh, you know, you, you do it functionally. 214 00:20:19.259 --> 00:20:22.680 You have the name to overspin, and you don't want to do it on this. 215 00:20:22.740 --> 00:20:25.319 We'd have to do it within, in a time for the money. 216 00:20:25.380 --> 00:20:27.900 To which I said, of course, you know, really. 217 00:20:30.180 --> 00:20:32.160 And did you keep to that? 218 00:20:32.460 --> 00:20:35.160 I don't know, I really thought about it. 219 00:20:35.220 --> 00:20:37.140 I mean, the thing, I'm thinking... 220 00:20:37.140 --> 00:20:48.059 You know, you can for special effects department who are doing Doctor Who, plus all the other visual effects for every other television production at the BBC. 221 00:20:48.119 --> 00:20:53.339 So, one official affairs department, which is doing Doctor Who, which is Mega. 222 00:20:53.519 --> 00:21:09.059 And then all of a sudden, you handle them, a 50% or a 100% increase in facility output. and Peak 7 most everyone affects, and model shots, all the rest of it. 223 00:21:09.180 --> 00:21:18.839 So, that department has a budget on the sheet and I never bothered to look, but I mean, I bet that overspent my extinct. 224 00:21:18.900 --> 00:21:19.500 Of course I did. 225 00:21:19.559 --> 00:21:21.359 I mean, you know, respond. 226 00:21:21.420 --> 00:21:39.599 And then you've got costume department where, you know, the Safari, the story from software software, John, its ed cars, of John Ross, raincoat, um, which, uh, because the big team stopped, haven't own costumes in a warehouse because of total costing. 227 00:21:39.720 --> 00:21:58.319 The John Watts raincoat was brought to hire by Bormans, who went to, who portraited for 14 quid somewhere, and hired it to the BC for £60 an episode for about 5 years. 228 00:21:58.380 --> 00:21:59.579 Oh my goodness. 229 00:22:00.359 --> 00:22:02.640 Before we do, will. 230 00:22:03.119 --> 00:22:06.240 Other than, I'm a job, I'll see. 231 00:22:06.299 --> 00:22:09.240 Suddenly we've got book 7 where everything has a costume. 232 00:22:09.299 --> 00:22:11.819 Absolutely everything is a costume. 233 00:22:11.880 --> 00:22:15.180 So I'm sure that department overspent. 234 00:22:15.240 --> 00:22:27.000 So, so, I think the sets, you know, it was obviously fuff, fuffles, income, which is a series of offices and a few locations and one or 2 original sets. 235 00:22:27.059 --> 00:22:41.220 That was the original concept of the spaceship, which that, you know, oh, I think the original concept was that all stories would more or less take place in the spaceship with the obtrip Dandworth on film. 236 00:22:41.279 --> 00:22:47.160 So the film element would be the trip down to a planet somewhere to... 237 00:22:47.279 --> 00:22:48.779 Of course, that didn't work out either. 238 00:22:48.839 --> 00:22:54.779 We ended up with sets from other planets, from other places, other ships. 239 00:22:54.839 --> 00:23:05.819 So, the oversinned was, I imagine, pretty big in the end, and I'm thinking, you know, the show, the successful thing would be good. 240 00:23:05.819 --> 00:23:06.900 It was acceptable. 241 00:23:06.960 --> 00:23:08.759 Sort of talking about the fact. 242 00:23:08.819 --> 00:23:15.900 Sort of one of the things that I thought stood out really well in the way back, your 1st episode was the sets by Martin Collins. 243 00:23:15.960 --> 00:23:16.980 Brilliant. 244 00:23:17.039 --> 00:23:18.240 Absolutely. 245 00:23:18.299 --> 00:23:20.339 I mean, I was, I read the script. 246 00:23:20.400 --> 00:23:22.559 It was very, it's finished, didn't you? 247 00:23:22.799 --> 00:23:33.240 Other than the other than the tunnels where the rebels live, other than the tunnels. one of the studio sets. 248 00:23:33.299 --> 00:23:43.380 And it's meant to be, you know, I imagine it was this enormous great sort of globe, um, dome thing, which describe it in the script as a great dome city, a dome city. 249 00:23:43.500 --> 00:23:46.140 And I thought, well, I don't know. 250 00:23:46.200 --> 00:23:47.819 I wonder how I can do this. 251 00:23:47.880 --> 00:23:52.680 And I was directing someone else, I was directing someone a bit water for something. 252 00:23:52.740 --> 00:23:57.720 I can't remember And Washington turned up at one hotel with a cardboard box and a studio plan. 253 00:23:57.779 --> 00:24:00.480 And you could make, we said, what cardboard piers? 254 00:24:00.539 --> 00:24:06.539 And if you look at episode one, all these piers have got sort of one fat set, which is straight up and down. 255 00:24:06.539 --> 00:24:13.200 And then they, they, they, they, the other faces are sort of run, run and inwards and they're bit out. 256 00:24:13.259 --> 00:24:17.819 So, so, they're on, they're trying to, rectangular. 257 00:24:17.940 --> 00:24:20.220 They're sort of rectangular ship. 258 00:24:20.279 --> 00:24:21.420 They were not rectangular. 259 00:24:21.480 --> 00:24:25.680 They're hard edged piers with fattening shapes on them. 260 00:24:25.740 --> 00:24:29.940 And he said, um, if we have interfrees. 261 00:24:30.000 --> 00:24:37.140 We can have a corridor, Michael, because we can lay it out all the way down there and you have a corridor all the whole length of the studio. 262 00:24:37.200 --> 00:24:40.920 And when we need a door, we'll just put a door flat in there. 263 00:24:40.980 --> 00:24:43.619 And then you have a prison cell, for example. 264 00:24:43.680 --> 00:24:48.240 Well, we can turn them around the other way, so they've got different facetted peers. 265 00:24:48.240 --> 00:24:55.859 And if we put prison bars in there, then we could use the entire studio for the prison. 266 00:24:56.160 --> 00:25:01.500 And he said, and I didn't see the courtroom, and he took, he took the players. 267 00:25:01.559 --> 00:25:02.519 He said for a courtroom. 268 00:25:02.579 --> 00:25:11.279 We could just make this huge circle and put all the piers around in the circle, maybe using different sides of them around the circle. 269 00:25:11.339 --> 00:25:13.740 Everything you've seen entire steel world for that. 270 00:25:13.799 --> 00:25:24.059 And he said, what we could do is, um, I'll just surround the studio with a white psych, cycle arm, uh, just surround it or a white psych. 271 00:25:24.059 --> 00:25:33.119 And then, when we shoot off the pears, it's going to be, it'll just go off to white. 272 00:25:33.180 --> 00:25:36.119 I just said I looked at them when that's something. 273 00:25:36.180 --> 00:25:40.319 And I don't know if you've watched it if it's been one in terms of these peers, in terms of the search. 274 00:25:40.380 --> 00:25:48.000 But I mean, is it the ending scene which stand on a corridor where the young couple are escaping and getting out for the 44st time? 275 00:25:48.119 --> 00:26:01.980 If you look at those piers, Then to exactly the same ones as you'd see Blake walking down a street, um, inside, but different sides are used and, um, did say differently. 276 00:26:02.039 --> 00:26:12.900 Uh, the ones in the opening scene where they was built, but at the end of it, And there's a staircase, the staircase down at the other, at the other end. 277 00:26:13.019 --> 00:26:30.000 So, Mainly, you have got a... channel set, I don't know, the inevitable underground tunnel, set, that is very long, or door at the end, and a metal staircase down, and computer off at the sides, it goes off to white, or it goes off to black, or whatever. 278 00:26:30.059 --> 00:26:36.359 And then it can occupy that option night almost before I'm talking off of the studio. 279 00:26:36.420 --> 00:26:50.400 So, Yeah, I want to see what we've got a film like, I mean, obviously we did all the singing to that configuration of the piers, and then we were with the peers into being the street and we did all the scenes of it, you know, exactly like you would in a movie. 280 00:26:50.460 --> 00:26:52.380 But it appears. 281 00:26:52.440 --> 00:27:08.640 There was almost one scenery at all in that, in that episode, that didn't just appear with maybe a draw flat put in it or a put in bar soils put in it or put in it for the courtroom scene, um, with a chair. 282 00:27:08.700 --> 00:27:10.740 I feel genius. 283 00:27:10.799 --> 00:27:20.940 When you're directing, do you get a choice of the people who are going to be doing this, the design work for you, or did you just find out who's on the rotor and breathe a sigh of relief because you know you've got a good one? 284 00:27:21.000 --> 00:27:22.980 Yeah, produce some... 285 00:27:22.980 --> 00:27:27.000 Yeah, no, that's what you've said applies, I think. 286 00:27:27.059 --> 00:27:30.180 I think it basically happens, design department. 287 00:27:30.240 --> 00:27:33.960 Okay, heading to someone will allocate. 288 00:27:34.019 --> 00:27:41.640 The head of design is going to allocate designers that are good for that sort of thing. 289 00:27:41.640 --> 00:28:00.480 They know they've got a good match on their books. and want to be measurement, I don't want to do. you know, some of them want to do periods, such, and, you know, the guide designing, a train from cities, or transfer around is not necessarily going to do a dietary design, um, Blake 7. 290 00:28:00.539 --> 00:28:02.400 Or a Doctor Who. 291 00:28:02.460 --> 00:28:05.279 And the pussy shows our... 292 00:28:05.279 --> 00:28:06.660 We should... 293 00:28:06.660 --> 00:28:12.299 Well, good designers, bad designers, and hardworking designers, and not an artworking designers. 294 00:28:12.359 --> 00:28:16.140 So, the health department, the head of design is going to allocate the right person. 295 00:28:16.200 --> 00:28:25.859 So, no, I've never had, I don't mean I ever had much influence in who I was designer, but I have some absolute brilliant signers. 296 00:28:25.920 --> 00:28:26.940 Absolutely brilliant. 297 00:28:27.000 --> 00:28:42.660 And the other shows, whose titles I will mention, um, I had less good to some manners sometimes, um, because they were mundane, they were more, they just wanted, you know, they just wanted to put the scenery up, basically. 298 00:28:42.720 --> 00:28:48.059 Yeah, so you mentioned your film work and the vacation film for this episode. 299 00:28:48.119 --> 00:29:02.640 And so I think this is sort of one of the standout parts of the of the show is the massacre and the great big shadows of the Federation guards, driding corridors, and then the flashback scenes, which are really sort of trippy and weird. 300 00:29:02.700 --> 00:29:08.339 Was that sort of a conscious decision on your part to make this a bit auburn strange? 301 00:29:08.460 --> 00:29:11.099 Oh, yeah, absolutely. 302 00:29:11.160 --> 00:29:13.740 I mean, the interrogation thing. 303 00:29:14.400 --> 00:29:21.660 Technology is just advanced so much, but in those days, the best thing you had was a traditional one zoom. 304 00:29:21.720 --> 00:29:28.079 So to bring to get from a close-up of the eye to, you only got to about full length, I guess. 305 00:29:28.140 --> 00:29:51.059 And so I had in this field in Cookham, Bray, Cookham, um, I had a 100 foot element track laid to this, um, to this bed thing that, um, Gareth was fixed on so that, um, I can't remember if I'm getting backwards or not. 306 00:29:51.119 --> 00:29:56.220 I really come, but anyway, there was um, a 100 foot LMAC track. 307 00:29:56.279 --> 00:30:12.720 So the camel went on, LMAC, Dolly, on this track, or 2021, Zoom, had been able to get from this great big wine shot, and because it was at mint, and a lot of light was poured on the gas, so the exterior, you know, the surrounding just wasn't black. 308 00:30:12.779 --> 00:30:23.400 Um, uh, to, to get them shot, I went from, you know, trundling down this out of back, track, uh, and then it was over the zoom, then right in towards. 309 00:30:23.460 --> 00:30:38.579 It didn't, when I saw the episode, it didn't look spectacular to me, and so it was in memory because it was such, those theories, it was so hard to do that. 310 00:30:38.940 --> 00:30:44.519 Yeah, drones and everything, people take it for granted now, but in those days, that's a massive operation. 311 00:30:44.579 --> 00:30:45.599 Exactly. 312 00:30:45.660 --> 00:30:48.059 I mean, oh, but we had grounds in those days. 313 00:30:48.119 --> 00:30:48.839 Yeah, absolutely. 314 00:30:49.500 --> 00:30:53.220 Were you involved in drinking the title sequence? 315 00:30:53.339 --> 00:30:55.799 As you had the 1st episode, do you remember? 316 00:30:55.859 --> 00:30:58.380 Obviously, there was... 317 00:30:58.500 --> 00:30:59.880 What's his name? 318 00:30:59.940 --> 00:31:03.119 Graphics designer was very good graphics designer. 319 00:31:03.180 --> 00:31:15.059 Um, whose name escapes me, but basically, David, Pennant, and I sat around and discussed when we're going with it. 320 00:31:15.059 --> 00:31:19.680 And we got, I remember we got a storyboard for, you know, not the tomato sequence. 321 00:31:19.680 --> 00:31:21.660 It was going to be like, have we discussed the storyboard? 322 00:31:21.720 --> 00:31:37.740 I doubt we made any radical changes because the graphics designer at the time was fairly smart, very good, and graphics, everyone would have chosen somebody who was into, you know, make 7 types south into sci-fi. 323 00:31:37.799 --> 00:31:39.960 So, so other, it doesn't. 324 00:31:39.960 --> 00:31:42.299 It actually looks... 325 00:31:42.299 --> 00:31:56.880 Dated, in my opinion, other things of the show are similar again, but I guess that's because, which is, you know, 10 years will have done so much, and graphics are just, so, animation is so much better. 326 00:31:56.940 --> 00:32:05.579 But it does feature the big dome that you managed to sort of do the match shop for on film, which I've been stands up really well as one of the best effects. 327 00:32:05.579 --> 00:32:08.819 Of that. 328 00:32:08.880 --> 00:32:12.900 I mean, the film industry has been doing that Mac shot for 1000 years. 329 00:32:12.960 --> 00:32:15.359 And in fact, doing that in that shot. 330 00:32:15.480 --> 00:32:19.559 And it's just really, really, it is just really, really good. 331 00:32:19.619 --> 00:32:22.380 And certainly the shadows were planned. 332 00:32:22.500 --> 00:32:28.319 I mean, absence of the coming land, you know, I want to see, you know, obviously, because actually we didn't do that in the guards. 333 00:32:28.380 --> 00:32:34.319 I mean, they had... 20, 20 corners, 30 corners. 334 00:32:34.319 --> 00:32:36.059 That's a lot more they usually had. 335 00:32:36.180 --> 00:32:37.140 So you did very well. 336 00:32:37.200 --> 00:32:40.079 So, um, I can't remember, so it was the few guards. 337 00:32:40.079 --> 00:32:42.059 So, maybe if the world called this became guards. 338 00:32:42.119 --> 00:32:43.200 So I've been looking... 339 00:32:43.200 --> 00:32:44.039 It's all surprised. 340 00:32:44.099 --> 00:32:44.700 So we can do that. 341 00:32:44.819 --> 00:32:49.200 So it seems to me that it would, We should do shadows to make it. 342 00:32:49.259 --> 00:32:51.420 It was a free good location. 343 00:32:51.480 --> 00:33:02.819 Those were World War one, ammunition, um, construction sites under the hill sign in, you know, New Bristol. 344 00:33:02.880 --> 00:33:04.859 I'm sure... 345 00:33:04.859 --> 00:33:08.400 It'll bush your way, that direction. 346 00:33:08.460 --> 00:33:11.039 Where are the Roman baths? 347 00:33:11.160 --> 00:33:13.079 Is it Bristol? 348 00:33:13.140 --> 00:33:14.640 Oh, run the bathroom. 349 00:33:14.700 --> 00:33:15.720 Oh, well. 350 00:33:15.720 --> 00:33:29.339 These are under the, they were originally minds, back in the things of war, they were minds, and World War one, they became, they were became the paper ammunition was constructive. 351 00:33:29.400 --> 00:33:34.859 They were then modernised, again, World War II and electric elevators and electric. 352 00:33:34.920 --> 00:33:37.019 Staircases, what do we call them? 353 00:33:37.079 --> 00:33:41.099 And then, yeah, um, isolated. 354 00:33:41.160 --> 00:33:42.480 Yeah. escalated. 355 00:33:42.900 --> 00:33:47.640 Escalators, indeed, as you know, there were a couple of escalators there. 356 00:33:47.700 --> 00:33:49.140 So it was quite, they didn't work. 357 00:33:49.200 --> 00:33:59.099 We had to walk up and down, of course, but, um, They were very well constructed, very extensive, and themselves. 358 00:33:59.160 --> 00:34:01.140 It was just luck, really. 359 00:34:01.200 --> 00:34:05.519 They were just really the perfect location because if you've got 20 or 30 extras. 360 00:34:05.579 --> 00:34:06.779 It's actually not going to happen. 361 00:34:06.779 --> 00:34:13.260 You get into, you know, into situations where you're in the open field. 2030 extras just vanish exactly. 362 00:34:13.320 --> 00:34:39.300 So it just happened, and then the, um, I like the electric, um, I like the electric carts, uh, which, you know, the varies, an electric vehicle was something where they really knew anything that was was a book float, and, uh, um, Actually, I've got a feeling they could have been walk floats that we, we, um, were modified or... modified or what? 363 00:34:39.300 --> 00:34:42.300 Pimp, which would be the current word for that, wouldn't it? 364 00:34:42.659 --> 00:34:50.280 It was good because like a dream film was there and make it look more, make it look more occupied. 365 00:34:50.340 --> 00:34:53.219 It was a good location, I place in Bath. 366 00:34:53.280 --> 00:34:53.699 Really good. 367 00:34:53.760 --> 00:34:55.500 Yeah, really atmospheric on screen. 368 00:34:55.559 --> 00:35:05.940 I'd had sort of memories of all that filming, which was physically quite tough because it started off by walking down. 369 00:35:06.059 --> 00:35:13.860 I don't know, um, 500 steps down these um, stationary um escalators. 370 00:35:13.920 --> 00:35:16.500 And then you have to travel a bit in there. 371 00:35:16.980 --> 00:35:19.920 It was just really lucky. 372 00:35:20.039 --> 00:35:26.340 That they worked out so very well and just enabled, they didn't do more source improvement. 373 00:35:26.400 --> 00:35:27.659 I mean, that's the trick, isn't it? 374 00:35:27.719 --> 00:35:28.679 You find a good location. 375 00:35:28.739 --> 00:35:30.900 You'll find a really good location. 376 00:35:30.960 --> 00:35:32.639 I made the most of it. 377 00:35:32.699 --> 00:35:34.019 And the location gives it back to you. 378 00:35:34.079 --> 00:35:41.400 So it was a few, from our point of view as viewers, it was a few weeks later that you came back to direct the episode, the web. 379 00:35:41.460 --> 00:35:45.659 Also with fantastic location work out in the woods. 380 00:35:45.719 --> 00:35:51.059 But how did it seem to you coming back to the show now that you've got the full crew in place? 381 00:35:51.119 --> 00:35:54.420 Of course, Paul Darrow's on board, which he wasn't at the very beginning. 382 00:35:54.480 --> 00:35:57.000 I'm contracted to do 3 episodes. 383 00:35:57.059 --> 00:36:05.460 Um, which would have been um, it was called the way back of the web and what was the next one project? 384 00:36:05.639 --> 00:36:09.659 I ended up with the 4th episode, which David was directing. 385 00:36:09.719 --> 00:36:22.800 David University, didn't want to use his directing abilities or reputation or anything else, just in case, you know, they didn't know where the breaks was going to work out and be as successful as it was or not. 386 00:36:22.920 --> 00:36:26.099 So David went through to direct. 387 00:36:26.159 --> 00:36:33.119 So he chose that episode for himself, and he did the film for it, a vocation filming as well, David. 388 00:36:33.179 --> 00:36:40.380 Um, He just discovered that he just got too much on his plate. 389 00:36:40.440 --> 00:36:53.820 They were so busy trying to create episodes to reflect the fact that some people of the Southern were more likeable, perhaps, than others. 390 00:36:53.880 --> 00:37:03.960 And so storylines lent themselves to some characters more than to other characters and to just suddenly start developing the whole thing for a 13 month series. 391 00:37:04.019 --> 00:37:12.119 So David, David King, you said, Michael, I can, you know, uh, can I extend your contract and get you just, uh, can you do the studio for me for the 4th one? 392 00:37:12.179 --> 00:37:14.699 So, to go back to the web. 393 00:37:14.760 --> 00:37:20.460 I confess I was disappointed because I really wrote the episode one script. 394 00:37:20.519 --> 00:37:23.579 It felt more John Windham, if you like. 395 00:37:23.639 --> 00:37:38.699 When we got into things, when we got into the web of the other episodes in series one, Um, they felt, A bit more, more standard sci-fi, we had a joke. 396 00:37:38.760 --> 00:37:43.500 I mean, the 3 of us had a joke, you know, where all braves were worrying where others had been before. 397 00:37:43.559 --> 00:37:49.320 Um, And then, I guess one, yeah, yeah. 398 00:37:49.440 --> 00:37:56.219 This is really, so we're going to try and do something different, which is why I turned the web into Tinsel Town. 399 00:37:56.280 --> 00:37:59.760 I had these balloons and I had, you know, and I did all that stuff with it. 400 00:38:00.360 --> 00:38:21.960 And by the time I got to the web, the, Cast of characters have, you know, the team, the nucleus of characters, had begun to realise that 7, was an awful, Gareth, you know, Gareth was the money, Gareth was the star. 401 00:38:22.019 --> 00:38:24.360 He was really a little bit apart from everybody. 402 00:38:24.420 --> 00:38:32.699 I mean, he was the leading, um, Enough with the brilliant actor, and he knew what he was doing, and he knew how he would try to make his action real. 403 00:38:32.820 --> 00:38:36.239 The rest of guys had the problem over going. 404 00:38:36.239 --> 00:38:38.760 There was no storyline for me in this. 405 00:38:38.820 --> 00:38:40.440 There wasn't enough story I own. 406 00:38:40.500 --> 00:38:54.480 So, The sort of seed of discontent within the group. were beginning to happen on the web, you know, it was just the beginning of people going, um, I don't have to reverse tomorrow, too. 407 00:38:54.480 --> 00:38:56.460 I'll be rehearsing because I want to be on this show. 408 00:38:56.519 --> 00:39:02.219 Actors want to act. don't want to be standing around in the background, and then I want to be sitting in the dressing room. 409 00:39:02.280 --> 00:39:07.679 They're just the seems of discontent. happening, just the seeds. 410 00:39:07.739 --> 00:39:14.820 Nothing serious, but certainly, everybody wanted to, everybody wanted to be in front of a camera. 411 00:39:14.880 --> 00:39:21.659 In the rehearsal room, you have the thing of people trying to outstage each other in theatre terms. 412 00:39:21.719 --> 00:39:27.300 I guess suddenly you've got to do a tight 5 shot of the whole cast altogether on the flight day. 413 00:39:27.360 --> 00:39:32.219 Yeah, yeah, there would be, um, Like, I'm a really good idea. 414 00:39:32.280 --> 00:39:33.719 Why don't I... 415 00:39:34.380 --> 00:39:35.699 Oh, yeah, that sounds terrific. 416 00:39:35.760 --> 00:39:36.659 Let me never think about that. 417 00:39:38.400 --> 00:39:42.960 And that's the episode where when we were doing our listen through for our podcast. 418 00:39:43.019 --> 00:39:55.440 We noticed that as an episode where that, the dynamic between Blake and Avon, as the sort of, you know, their differing principles, really comes to the 4 about, so Avon just thinks of, why, why do we care about saving these people? 419 00:39:55.500 --> 00:39:57.000 these creatures. 420 00:39:57.059 --> 00:40:01.860 Whereas Blake is much more taking the, taking the moral high ground. 421 00:40:02.159 --> 00:40:12.840 Created conflict, whereas the rest of the nucleus, the rest of the group couldn't have conflict, because they basically agree with everything that they were saying. 422 00:40:12.900 --> 00:40:19.739 I mean, nobody, nobody, objection to anything you can say, they've been a different suggestion, possession of what's their brave leader, you know, what they could. 423 00:40:19.800 --> 00:40:22.440 If you don't say, how can I have a woman good, wasn't he? 424 00:40:22.500 --> 00:40:26.460 So, um, and all the married men, the greed was Robin. 425 00:40:26.519 --> 00:40:29.039 So, Ava was brought in. 426 00:40:29.099 --> 00:40:33.179 I have no idea if I had no idea if anything was crisp natural termination. 427 00:40:33.239 --> 00:40:34.079 No idea at all. 428 00:40:34.139 --> 00:40:41.099 Um, You don't have to ask somebody who does know, but, Certainly, it was the perfect foil. 429 00:40:41.159 --> 00:40:55.860 It was for perfect, it was to have a different point of view from, of course, that's, that's nature, of course, of nature episodes, that were the baddies and the goodies, but we didn't really have the baddies at that stage. 430 00:40:55.920 --> 00:40:57.239 So everyone was great. 431 00:40:57.300 --> 00:40:57.599 Yeah. 432 00:40:57.659 --> 00:41:04.679 Yeah, there isn't, yeah, we'll come to her in a moment, but there isn't an external antagonist yet, at least not a superstar proportions. 433 00:41:04.739 --> 00:41:11.280 But in this episode, we noticed there was lots of tracking shots and fades and handheld cameras being used. 434 00:41:11.340 --> 00:41:16.920 Was that something, was that a particular trait of yours to bring to a show or particularly to break? 435 00:41:16.920 --> 00:41:21.059 Or was it something that you felt you could do more with Blake 7 maybe than with less adventurous shows? 436 00:41:21.119 --> 00:41:23.099 I thought... 437 00:41:23.099 --> 00:41:25.739 I don't think we're a fan full of tricking shots. 438 00:41:25.800 --> 00:41:29.820 So, you know, I'd have been, you know, a with with a drone. 439 00:41:29.820 --> 00:41:33.539 And I, and I, and I've always quite liked handful. 440 00:41:33.599 --> 00:41:41.880 I'm always quite like handheld because it gives you a feeling of being involved in a, um, Involved in an action. 441 00:41:41.880 --> 00:41:50.880 I was 1st assistant to a director called Peter Hammond, who was very, very talented, incredibly talented director. 442 00:41:50.940 --> 00:41:56.940 And Peter said, and Peter said to me, the camera should be the 5th wall. 443 00:41:57.000 --> 00:41:59.460 The camera should be involved in the scene. 444 00:41:59.519 --> 00:42:01.019 The camera should be the 5th ward. 445 00:42:01.079 --> 00:42:03.360 It should be in there with the people. 446 00:42:03.420 --> 00:42:04.199 It shouldn't be. 447 00:42:04.199 --> 00:42:06.239 Just any of that. 448 00:42:06.300 --> 00:42:11.039 And the, and the sort of things that the camera does should reflect fully. 449 00:42:11.099 --> 00:42:13.800 I mean, clearly, if you can do a flight sequence, you can do it handheld. 450 00:42:13.860 --> 00:42:14.880 Of course you are. 451 00:42:14.940 --> 00:42:18.539 We're not going to stand there with sort of rock solid studio cameras. 452 00:42:18.599 --> 00:42:31.139 Yeah, I mean, we'll notice sort of through watching your episode, particularly, that the fight scenes, themed, torture, and more action-packed than other directors of the series, Manning, through the 1st series. 453 00:42:31.199 --> 00:42:37.440 So, I mean, coming from Doctor Who, obviously, you had lots of experience of action scenes in that. 454 00:42:37.500 --> 00:42:38.639 No doubt, you know. 455 00:42:38.699 --> 00:42:46.019 Dr. Boom, drove of opportunity to learn about action, to learn about stunts, to learn about techniques. 456 00:42:46.079 --> 00:42:53.099 Um, you know, I'm, I would say, to be very fortunate, Doctor Who for giving me the opportunity to learn how to do all those things. 457 00:42:53.159 --> 00:42:57.059 And one of your effect shots was putting Richard Beale's heads into a tank. 458 00:42:57.119 --> 00:43:00.000 Yes, and poor Richard. 459 00:43:01.139 --> 00:43:03.300 That's funny, friend of mine. 460 00:43:03.360 --> 00:43:25.320 Yeah, I mean, I've done, we were working fairly fast, partly because the scripts weren't there and, you know, there wasn't sort of, you didn't remember too much of trying to forward planning, um, because you just came, you finished the show, and then you were waiting for the script for the next one, because before Chris was desperately trying to feel parental script and veroscript. 461 00:43:25.440 --> 00:43:27.420 So, I've done it. 462 00:43:27.480 --> 00:43:29.219 I've done exactly the same trick. 463 00:43:29.280 --> 00:43:34.500 In a Doctor Who called, was it colony in space? 464 00:43:34.500 --> 00:43:43.500 I think there was, I've got a feeling where I had a head on a little body and I just went, yeah, I will use that. 465 00:43:43.500 --> 00:43:45.420 I will use that technique. 466 00:43:45.480 --> 00:43:50.880 Again, because I guess that's what Penn and I both had this. 467 00:43:50.940 --> 00:43:58.139 We had, we had the ability to look back at our doctoral careers and go, you know, I think it was that trick in order to do this. 468 00:43:58.199 --> 00:44:02.219 Yeah, which was invaluable, so that you haven't got a lot of time. 469 00:44:02.280 --> 00:44:03.000 That's right. 470 00:44:03.059 --> 00:44:08.820 And you want it to be, you must have done it with 15 minutes, and it was a bigger... 471 00:44:08.820 --> 00:44:14.039 Bixon was a bigger canvas in the studio, really, than Dr. Boom was. 472 00:44:14.099 --> 00:44:19.440 Doctor Who is managed to have, the main on any production goes in location for me. 473 00:44:19.500 --> 00:44:28.079 That's all, you know, you've got so many people out there working to produce three, four, or 5 minutes worth of material per day. 474 00:44:28.079 --> 00:44:35.940 Blake 7, have a slightly lower program to a full time than Doctor Who would have done for the same length. 475 00:44:36.000 --> 00:44:45.780 So there is more studio stuff to do, and studio stuff means if you're going to do effects, you need to know that they're going to work. 476 00:44:45.840 --> 00:44:48.059 You can't go into the studio. 477 00:44:48.119 --> 00:44:50.820 I'm sure Ah, David. 478 00:44:50.880 --> 00:45:04.679 I think it was David introduced, or I don't know where it came from, but we certainly had an effects designer in gallery, a guy who gets credited towards him with the credits. 479 00:45:04.739 --> 00:45:12.780 And you would sit in the gallery and I would say to him, uh, look, I want to do, you know, I want to, you know, I want to do this sort of effect. 480 00:45:12.840 --> 00:45:15.719 I want something like this happening in the scene. 481 00:45:15.780 --> 00:45:20.940 I'd miss it down at his control panel on the, on the desk. 482 00:45:20.940 --> 00:45:22.980 And you'd work a well at it. 483 00:45:23.039 --> 00:45:24.539 And then you got in the concept of the scene. 484 00:45:24.599 --> 00:45:26.699 And Michael, have a look at this. 485 00:45:26.760 --> 00:45:39.659 It's just, is this what you, so you would actually, Um, greatly enhance your effects, by, for example, we were talking about the cyclorama in, um, in the 1st episode in the way back. 486 00:45:39.719 --> 00:45:43.679 Well, I hadn't remembered was that I would shoot off the top of the sets. 487 00:45:43.739 --> 00:45:45.000 I hadn't thought about that. 488 00:45:45.059 --> 00:45:48.300 And in the 1st thing else, I went, oh, shit. 489 00:45:48.360 --> 00:45:51.360 I'm off the top into the into the lights. 490 00:45:51.420 --> 00:45:58.440 You know, you can see or again, I mean, look, come to see me, you're such a nice guy, I'm so talented, and was it A.J. 491 00:45:58.440 --> 00:45:58.980 Mitchell? 492 00:45:59.039 --> 00:45:59.460 Yes. 493 00:45:59.460 --> 00:46:02.880 Mitch would say, don't worry about it. 494 00:46:02.940 --> 00:46:04.739 I'll just wipe it white to cover all that. 495 00:46:04.800 --> 00:46:06.539 And it just pulled down. 496 00:46:06.599 --> 00:46:09.059 Yeah, I mean, just so simply, the just. 497 00:46:09.239 --> 00:46:11.579 He pulled it in there. 498 00:46:11.639 --> 00:46:15.480 He took a, he took a piece of encyclonama colour. 499 00:46:15.539 --> 00:46:23.280 It up to full screen, and then wiped it in from the top gowns into, yeah, in a blink, the problem went away. 500 00:46:23.340 --> 00:46:34.619 So, yeah, so when you're describing the fact of it, you would, um, you know, really think about it, and then it presents you something much better than you ever imagine, much better than you ever thought of. exactly what you want. 501 00:46:34.679 --> 00:46:35.880 Very clever guy. 502 00:46:35.940 --> 00:46:37.320 Very smart. 503 00:46:37.380 --> 00:46:39.960 You had a whole set of monsters for this episode. 504 00:46:40.079 --> 00:46:41.159 The decimal. 505 00:46:41.219 --> 00:46:41.940 Oh, yes. 506 00:46:42.000 --> 00:46:43.320 And they're speaking. 507 00:46:43.380 --> 00:46:44.400 The little people. 508 00:46:44.519 --> 00:46:46.800 Depressed little people. 509 00:46:46.980 --> 00:46:49.260 Yeah, Roy. 510 00:46:49.320 --> 00:46:50.699 I could have had children. 511 00:46:50.760 --> 00:47:00.119 Because clearly, kids would do it, but there were films strict working hours for children, and they needed chaperones and needed books, and they needed everything else. 512 00:47:00.179 --> 00:47:07.860 So, um, she and children just seemed, well, it it, you couldn't have filled them in time for the money. 513 00:47:07.920 --> 00:47:10.199 And the trip, that's always the trip, isn't it? 514 00:47:10.260 --> 00:47:10.980 in the time for the money. 515 00:47:11.039 --> 00:47:17.039 I then thought, well, add your little people would be a better idea. 516 00:47:17.099 --> 00:47:19.559 So we had almost every... 517 00:47:19.619 --> 00:47:21.179 I think there's about 8 of them. 518 00:47:21.719 --> 00:47:27.480 I wonder, why, why became quite famous and... 519 00:47:27.539 --> 00:47:31.559 Roy, you know, became well, you went to Hollywood since the end. 520 00:47:32.099 --> 00:47:39.840 And he still speaks fondly about his 70s BBT appearances in Blake Seven and Doctor Who and bonus features about other things. 521 00:47:39.900 --> 00:47:41.219 It's great, seeing it's like that. 522 00:47:41.280 --> 00:47:50.579 These guys, it's quite hard work for them because it's actually very short legs and it's, you know, demons will run around in the heather doing stuff like that. 523 00:47:50.639 --> 00:48:01.860 It's physically very, very demanding, and they were really up for it, and they were in those costumes, which are always, you know, these plastic rubber heads, and plastic rubber costumes are really hard work. 524 00:48:01.920 --> 00:48:04.800 I mean, I just saw they watch out really, really well. 525 00:48:04.860 --> 00:48:07.380 Nice people, really nice people hard working. 526 00:48:07.440 --> 00:48:11.760 I think they have a little professional, little person in the business on their production. 527 00:48:18.960 --> 00:48:35.039 So, thank you very much for listening to the first part of our interview with Michael E. Bryant, who I'm sure you will agree, was absolutely fantastic, talking about the creation of the show, his work on the way back and the web. 528 00:48:35.159 --> 00:48:38.460 We'll be back next time for part two. 529 00:48:38.519 --> 00:48:50.639 Yes, Michael is going to be telling us more about his other 2 episodes. and particularly the return to Wookiehole, and there's a great debate about the different ways that recording has changed. 530 00:48:50.699 --> 00:48:53.400 Single camera versus multicamera in studio. 531 00:48:53.460 --> 00:48:59.219 Plus, a very interesting discussion on the original design of the Liberator. 532 00:48:59.280 --> 00:49:00.300 Yes, indeed. 533 00:49:00.420 --> 00:49:02.039 I can't wait to hear it again myself. 534 00:49:02.099 --> 00:49:03.420 No, nor me. 535 00:49:03.480 --> 00:49:20.039 Before we go, I'd like to say a very big thank you to Jason Thompson of robots in their eyes podcast, who very kindly went and did the difficult thing of approaching Michael in the 1st place when I got a bit shy and couldn't do it. 536 00:49:20.099 --> 00:49:27.360 So Jason, this big, big thank you to you for making this happen and for putting us in touch with Michael. 537 00:49:27.420 --> 00:49:29.039 Absolutely, absolutely. 538 00:49:29.099 --> 00:49:36.599 You had the cojones to just go up and ask nicely, which neither of us dared to do, and it was like, and all this has happened because of that. 539 00:49:36.659 --> 00:49:40.559 So yes, so join us next week for part 2 of the interview. 540 00:49:40.619 --> 00:49:43.920 Thank you very much for listening and goodbye. 541 00:49:43.980 --> 00:49:44.519 Goodbye. 542 00:49:54.119 --> 00:49:56.280 Switching to manual. 543 00:49:56.340 --> 00:49:58.380 Maximum power on all drives. 544 00:50:01.440 --> 00:50:03.420 Maximum power.