The Michael E Briant Interview, Part 1

[00:03]

Maximal power.

Welcome back to Maximum Power, the Blake 7 podcast.

Now, we know you've all been desperately waiting series B, and we can assure you that those episodes are coming up, but we thought we would start with a very special couple of episodes.

So hello, I'm Cy, and I'm Pete, and we are absolutely thrilled to be joined on this very special couple of episodes by Mr. Michael E. Bryant himself, director of 4 episodes of Blake 7, which we are huge fans of...

Now, Michael very generously gave us a big chunk of his time, didn't he, Cy, to talk to him from his, he was in, he's in Boulogne, isn't he, from his...

He's speaking to us from his basement in Blogne.

The sound quality, unfortunately, isn't exactly as perfect as we'd like it to be.

There's a bit of an issue on that, but Si here has worked some technical wizardry to get it improved as much as possible because it's such a good interview.

[01:09]

We definitely had to press on and the show went on to make sure that we got that interview in the can.

And so do bear with us if it's a little bit, a little bit rattly on the sound.

We've done all we can to get it up to a good standard for you.

Absolutely Hopefully, the quality of the interview and Michael's anecdotes and stories from working on the show will more than compensate for that.

That's right We've got, yeah, coming up in this 1st one, we've got his, his, interesting revelations about his earliest influences about storytelling.

His current horror favourites, his current, the box sets, he's currently bingeing, but then most importantly, we get into the Blake 7 stuff.

We're getting to the creation of Blake 7.

The extent of Terry Nations input, and what makes a genius set designer.

That was a real, that's a really interesting talk that's coming up.

Yeah, absolutely.

He, yeah, that was wonderful to hear.

And just to hear his memories of working on the show was something really special, especially as he hasn't really talked about the show as often as he has his Doctor Who episodes.

[02:15]

Yeah, he was really pleased, I think, to be asked about this one because it's clearly some work that he's that he really threw himself into, even though his arm did need twisting a little bit.

But you'll hear all about that coming up in this interview.

Now, it's a cliche to say somebody needs no introduction, but if you're a fan of Blake 7 or loads of other classic TV greats, you will certainly already be a fan and as thrilled as we are to be welcoming to the podcast, a very special guest, Michael Lee Bryant.

Welcome to maximum power.

Hello, thank you very much.

Thank you for inviting me.

I'm actually invited to the participating from Big 7 event rather than anything else.

Well, we're very, we love it all, but we're biased.

Blake 7 is definitely our favourite.

And you're just freshly back from a nautical adventure yourself, is that right?

What?

Well, yeah, I went off swimming for the summer, right?

I had 3 months sailing.

I went off, um, I went off, uh, around the, uh, from where I live here in Belong to, um, Eastbourne, Brighton and then into the Solent and then across to Alberney and then back along the French coast.

[03:22]

I'm planning on taking my boat to the Caribbean, on the deck of a cargo ship, then you say.

And I just wanted to make sure that I was still physically fit enough to cope with climbing up a 4 foot ladder up the side of the ship and getting the boat in winter from here and belonging to Southampton, which is 150 miles.

And yeah, I actually had a marvellous time.

I saw past the Sea Devil Fort, which will appear in one of my later videos.

Brilliant.

We know it well.

The pulse keeps coming back to haunt you.

We were wondering, what type of adventure stories did you enjoy when you were young and whether that had any impact on your career and when you got into becoming a storyteller as a director?

Was there an inspiration?

I'm afraid they learned to read to my mother's horror, and she actually, apart from school, took me to one side, or kindergarten, or whatever it was, to me, one side, and actually taught me to read, and then gave me a ticket to the children's, the children's library, which I just asked into that.

[04:34]

I loved Biggles.

Remember Biggles?

W W W something John's was the author.

There were loads of Biggles books, um, which I I divide like Madden, for I enjoyed.

It was really nothing.

Yeah, well, I went to travel school when I was 12, and when I was about 13, I was a movie called Chose a Turtle, which earned me enough money to buy a padded Bolex video camera.

I've already got a projector.

My parents had given me a projector, and I had Mickey Mouse cartoons, and Mickey, in black and white on, on scaffolding things going up and down, but I got myself out of my earning from this movie.

I got my sort of play at Bull X, 18 metre film camera, which is 16 mill, and you split the film down the middle, and you stick it together, or it comes stuck together when you get it developed.

And I instantly started making little films.

So, I was always, I think I always wanted to tell, Full stories.

[05:39]

You know, as a kid, it was my hobby.

It was what I was just interested in.

It wasn't a, you know, it wasn't a panic thing, but, uh, you know, I, I still actually got there.

I still got the ignore metre films that I shot.

I hate to say, it's something like 65 years ago.

That's fantastic.

Fashion world.

You know, I'm reading, reading.

It's funny.

I read now.

Um, I, I, in all my life, I've never been able to go to bed without reading a book.

I thought we were going to bring a book, reading a couple of few chapters.

And reading, reading books and then, you know, Connolly, Stephen King, um, that sort of thing, nothing too, nothing too high about, but quality writers.

I sort of, I'm going to jump it out.

I went through the zombie thing and I'm like, oh, no, if I need another zombie book, I think I'll scream.

Reading to me is just wonderful and for me and it's very useful because it'll read quite quickly.

[06:42]

I can sort of skin weed when I want to.

I can spring read.

So now I was doing something like a chain of 2 cities.

Which, oh, I used to read sort of science fiction, uh, JF Fifthids, uh, John Wondon, John, brilliant.

After all that, always been big and just a nice fiction.

But being into speedweed, whenever one else Barry gave me a turn to assistant direct, I just got every single book.

I went to Smith and bought every single book that was relating to that period in history.

And for a few moments in time, I reckon I know more about that period in French history, and Dickens writing of it, than anybody else in the world, just for, just for sort of, like, 2 weeks ago.

Yeah, so reading for me is, reading stuff like John Lincoln, I was trying to, I didn't expect him to ask for that.

I was trying to remember the others in my word.

I just loved all that.

I've always been.

I've always liked real science fiction.

[07:44]

I've always liked science fiction that I, I'm not into superheroes.

I can't watch, I can't watch civil heroes because I just don't believe it could happen.

But I don't believe the Walking Dead could happen.

I absolutely do.

A friend, a friend who is much more intelligent and clever and smart and educated than he was for a few months ago, and um, And he said, you know, what, what, what, what, what do you do?

And I said, well, I've been playing the last of us, part two.

Yes, the last of us.

Yeah, the last was part two.

A PlayStation.

Absolutely, yeah, brilliantly made stories, forms.

I mean, it is superb stuff.

It's a whole world, isn't it?

Yeah.

Have you ever seen Walking Dead?

Because it's brilliant.

And said, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

[08:44]

And so I turned it up on, uh, turned it up on Netflix, put it on guest.

I'm doing it in the 1st episode, which, you know, where, where it all starts, where, where he wakes up in hospital, very John Wyndham.

A lot of zombie books have to have this sort of hospitalised idea for people. not being aware of what's happening anyway.

So he, uh, he watched the 1st episode and then he went away and I, I doubt he watched the rest of it was a bit too intellectual, but, um, I mean, I know, this is a really good show.

He said, have a look.

I've seen it her once and I actually said stream it.

I then streamed about 10 series worth, I think.

It does fall off in quality.

So, so it's 2 11 are dodgy and I think I gave up mainly because I lost him.

I lost interested in the characters because it was the characters in any production. which are so important, which make the production, aren't they?

[09:52]

You would empathise within your love on Haythorn, or wounds by them or whatever, but you empathise with the characters, which is one, I think, the last of us works so well, because you empathise with the girl, girls, in that.

That actually, to bring around to break 7.

What?

Was what?

David, uh, David and Piano, I were trying to do with the very beginning of it was the casting, was which 7 characters, we have 7 characters to cast, which, David cast Gareth, the rest of them, the sort of, we would sit and talk about it, the 3 of us, we'd sort of discuss it.

And the idea was to make, was to film a group, was to form a nucleus of actors who would have, because actually there weren't any episodes written at that stage.

You've already preempted our next question, which was, yeah, when you got on board, how far down the road was it?

[10:55]

You're still very much at early doors, you're still deciding who the 7 are going to be before.

Well, how far down the road was this happening?

Probably, if I'd signed a contract to do it, and I wouldn't have been having any discussions, if I hadn't, it was probably about, Eight weeks from getting into rehearsal with the 1st one, 6 weeks, maybe.

That sounds terrifyingly short amount of time, but it was that normal.

She had sold the project on his name and printed pages to the head of drama.

And the controller.

So, Twitter pages, and Twitter's name, Blake 7, and I think I read somewhere, maybe one more podcast or something that, you know, my 7, you know, why not 5, Blake's 5, instead you know, Blake 4, it wouldn't sound very exciting.

So, um, make 7 sound exciting.

And the idea also we would have this, we would have this sort of nucleus of actors and all the stories would be concerning these 7 and it would, it would go around the, the 7 of them.

[12:03]

That was an idea for the ongoing series.

But at that stage, there was this 50 page, there was this 20 page script and scripts were about, if I remember, Michael, there were about 30 seconds of paying each, I think it is, roughly gets you to a 50 minute, so there wasn't that, there wasn't that much.

So that got written up into 50 minutes worth.

And then there was an ongoing battle for writing, um, you know, Chris Belcher was turning with sounding and a really significant script, um, amounting to channel 12 pages.

And Chris and David would take it from there.

Yeah.

Do you have a line like he walked down the corridor and have to put very slowly or something to...

Oh, that's right.

No, I mean, yeah.

I've never mentioned a nation, but obviously I...

[13:06]

No, never imagine.

He never turned up anywhere.

I think he just took an Indian round, really.

He did my Dalek story, which was erected, because I mean, the Daleks look foolish, and he said that was what we got.

But then, of course, when it was only, you know, because you were turned in another 12 pages, that Dalek story.

And that's why the fans like it so much because they're, they're, um, they've got a thing with their wits because they've lost their their weapons, haven't they, Death of the Daleks?

And some poor story, right?

I can't remember who it was.

Was it Terence Sticks for that one?

Was it terms?

Yeah, okay.

So terms of sat down, both the typewriter, and they banged out some, you know, some more stuff and...

Yeah, I, I, you know, I'm sure there's something, obviously, clearly they sent it to Jerry.

But, well, anyway, I don't even read it.

You know, I mean, we would just see some episodes.

So, so, big seven.

It was really, this process of writing scripts, and even as the theory, with the word.

[14:11]

I can't remember how many episodes were in the 1st series. 13 altogether.

13.

Yeah, okay.

So there were 13 episodes.

I think there was one episode one, which is very different from all of the hours.

Pennant's 1st episode, which was actually the 1st one we recorded, was where in order to introduce all southern characters, which were going to carry the story forward.

And that, you know, that again, was down to Chris, you know, Chris writing it up.

And we, And we cast the show in order to have these different characters in this ensemble, it's based on the lap team.

And I thought it didn't really work out like that at all.

I mean, we didn't know it was no workout, but, um, It stopped being very quickly looking apparent that, You couldn't have ensemble acting with stories that were interesting from 7 people, all confined to the same spaceship.

[15:16]

Basically.

Well, we, you know, hell you.

We, we didn't know we didn't think about it.

It seemed like a good idea at the time, but the reality, um, the reality came fairly quickly that you need to bring in other characters who needed other people around, so that's why the stories became more diverse with weird events happening based on other characters.

Probably not quite so true, the 1st 4 or 5 episodes.

But I think after that, You'll find those sort of starry characters that come in and really hold the story together.

Definitely.

So, did you feel that because you've done Doctor Who, that this was a natural fit for you, was that, um, sort of dating Malone, thinking and inviting you onto the show?

They've also done Doctor Who as well.

I really didn't want, I confess, I wouldn't want to do a show.

I really wasn't up for it.

I mean, David offered it to me and I went, listen, I, you know, I've just walked away from Doctor Who.

[16:17]

I, you know, I, I've done my stint on Doctor Who, and I loved it and enjoyed it and learnt my training on it, but I didn't want to go on and do other things, and it felt like.

The different dish of, because there's a description, you, of course, just, just, just, just, now, I, um, David, and, you know, and David even took me out to dinner, I think, to, um, Persapian surgery, this is, this is adults and inscription, Michael.

This is more, this is not children's television, this is adults, no section.

And I had written some sort of German and...

Yeah, well, then from after dinner, the game, I went, yeah, okay, all right, yeah, I'll, I'll do.

David wouldn't just surround himself with people like me and pennant who could do effects.

You could do the technical sound of it.

You know, eyes shut, easily.

[17:18]

Not getting me. very long, who he admired as a directable view, has never done, Doctor Who had done sci-fi, but VI was getting the 3rd lot to do, and, um, and David felt that if Penn and I just got the show running, When Vork was shot in, and if there were any problems, that could, uh, you know, boil because sort of technical stuff out for fear.

But in fact, you know, I think as far as I know, very well, I don't think I, well, I haven't seen the episodes.

I've never seen my own recently.

Thanks for you guys.

Did you feel that the BBC was supportive because it's had a very BBC's had a very hot and cold relationship with science fiction over the years, mostly cold, as fans tend to feel.

Was the BBC really behind Blake 7 as a concept, do you feel?

Oh, yes.

I mean, you know, Dr. Drew was very, very successful.

And, um, therefore, if an animal writer comes along.

Yes, and I mean, you know, they should be a race, but we don't remember.

[18:23]

But there was a show called Moonbase.

It was set based on the moon.

I don't think it was particularly good.

And then there was Much better one done by drama series.

About an apocalypse, an apocalyptic world, and what people, the survivors.

The survivors, that's it.

Yeah, that was Terry Nation's previous Blake 7, wasn't it?

Termination.

Yeah.

The survivors was very, very successful.

And there was another one with Brian Marshall playing the read in it, which I've got, um, about uh, walls, walls, I love the idea.

World retaining history.

Wolves retaining, um, memories of what went on in the room, the stone tank.

Yep, that's it.

So, the BBC was well up for science fiction, and if Jimmy came wrong with, like, 7, a really exciting thing, maybe you can find in a spaceship with these 7 challenges, so it's not going to cost a lot of money, um, what you built was fantastic, and all the words, and here's a really exciting, 1st storyline, setting words in a post-apocalyptic world where, you know, all the clinches, so that you can imagine.

[19:43]

I know, but it was wrapped up, absolutely enough to up, and we're very keen to do it, except, except for the budget.

I mean, um, the head of drama of controller, having bought the show, just handed it worthy, um, to the financial head of drama series, who was a lady whose name I have totally forgotten, who called me into the office, and said, you want to put this number on this, Michael?

You know, we'd have to start it.

Um, it's basically, um, it's the software software budget.

And, uh, you know, you, you do it functionally.

You have the name to overspin, and you don't want to do it on this.

We'd have to do it within, in a time for the money.

To which I said, of course, you know, really.

And did you keep to that?

I don't know, I really thought about it.

I mean, the thing, I'm thinking...

You know, you can for special effects department who are doing Doctor Who, plus all the other visual effects for every other television production at the BBC.

[20:48]

So, one official affairs department, which is doing Doctor Who, which is Mega.

And then all of a sudden, you handle them, a 50% or a 100% increase in facility output. and Peak 7 most everyone affects, and model shots, all the rest of it.

So, that department has a budget on the sheet and I never bothered to look, but I mean, I bet that overspent my extinct.

Of course I did.

I mean, you know, respond.

And then you've got costume department where, you know, the Safari, the story from software software, John, its ed cars, of John Ross, raincoat, um, which, uh, because the big team stopped, haven't own costumes in a warehouse because of total costing.

The John Watts raincoat was brought to hire by Bormans, who went to, who portraited for 14 quid somewhere, and hired it to the BC for £60 an episode for about 5 years.

[21:58]

Oh my goodness.

Before we do, will.

Other than, I'm a job, I'll see.

Suddenly we've got book 7 where everything has a costume.

Absolutely everything is a costume.

So I'm sure that department overspent.

So, so, I think the sets, you know, it was obviously fuff, fuffles, income, which is a series of offices and a few locations and one or 2 original sets.

That was the original concept of the spaceship, which that, you know, oh, I think the original concept was that all stories would more or less take place in the spaceship with the obtrip Dandworth on film.

So the film element would be the trip down to a planet somewhere to...

Of course, that didn't work out either.

We ended up with sets from other planets, from other places, other ships.

So, the oversinned was, I imagine, pretty big in the end, and I'm thinking, you know, the show, the successful thing would be good.

[23:05]

It was acceptable.

Sort of talking about the fact.

Sort of one of the things that I thought stood out really well in the way back, your 1st episode was the sets by Martin Collins.

Brilliant.

Absolutely.

I mean, I was, I read the script.

It was very, it's finished, didn't you?

Other than the other than the tunnels where the rebels live, other than the tunnels. one of the studio sets.

And it's meant to be, you know, I imagine it was this enormous great sort of globe, um, dome thing, which describe it in the script as a great dome city, a dome city.

And I thought, well, I don't know.

I wonder how I can do this.

And I was directing someone else, I was directing someone a bit water for something.

I can't remember And Washington turned up at one hotel with a cardboard box and a studio plan.

And you could make, we said, what cardboard piers?

And if you look at episode one, all these piers have got sort of one fat set, which is straight up and down.

[24:06]

And then they, they, they, they, the other faces are sort of run, run and inwards and they're bit out.

So, so, they're on, they're trying to, rectangular.

They're sort of rectangular ship.

They were not rectangular.

They're hard edged piers with fattening shapes on them.

And he said, um, if we have interfrees.

We can have a corridor, Michael, because we can lay it out all the way down there and you have a corridor all the whole length of the studio.

And when we need a door, we'll just put a door flat in there.

And then you have a prison cell, for example.

Well, we can turn them around the other way, so they've got different facetted peers.

And if we put prison bars in there, then we could use the entire studio for the prison.

And he said, and I didn't see the courtroom, and he took, he took the players.

He said for a courtroom.

We could just make this huge circle and put all the piers around in the circle, maybe using different sides of them around the circle.

[25:11]

Everything you've seen entire steel world for that.

And he said, what we could do is, um, I'll just surround the studio with a white psych, cycle arm, uh, just surround it or a white psych.

And then, when we shoot off the pears, it's going to be, it'll just go off to white.

I just said I looked at them when that's something.

And I don't know if you've watched it if it's been one in terms of these peers, in terms of the search.

But I mean, is it the ending scene which stand on a corridor where the young couple are escaping and getting out for the 44st time?

If you look at those piers, Then to exactly the same ones as you'd see Blake walking down a street, um, inside, but different sides are used and, um, did say differently.

Uh, the ones in the opening scene where they was built, but at the end of it, And there's a staircase, the staircase down at the other, at the other end.

[26:13]

So, Mainly, you have got a... channel set, I don't know, the inevitable underground tunnel, set, that is very long, or door at the end, and a metal staircase down, and computer off at the sides, it goes off to white, or it goes off to black, or whatever.

And then it can occupy that option night almost before I'm talking off of the studio.

So, Yeah, I want to see what we've got a film like, I mean, obviously we did all the singing to that configuration of the piers, and then we were with the peers into being the street and we did all the scenes of it, you know, exactly like you would in a movie.

But it appears.

There was almost one scenery at all in that, in that episode, that didn't just appear with maybe a draw flat put in it or a put in bar soils put in it or put in it for the courtroom scene, um, with a chair.

I feel genius.

When you're directing, do you get a choice of the people who are going to be doing this, the design work for you, or did you just find out who's on the rotor and breathe a sigh of relief because you know you've got a good one?

[27:21]

Yeah, produce some...

Yeah, no, that's what you've said applies, I think.

I think it basically happens, design department.

Okay, heading to someone will allocate.

The head of design is going to allocate designers that are good for that sort of thing.

They know they've got a good match on their books. and want to be measurement, I don't want to do. you know, some of them want to do periods, such, and, you know, the guide designing, a train from cities, or transfer around is not necessarily going to do a dietary design, um, Blake 7.

Or a Doctor Who.

And the pussy shows our...

We should...

Well, good designers, bad designers, and hardworking designers, and not an artworking designers.

So, the health department, the head of design is going to allocate the right person.

So, no, I've never had, I don't mean I ever had much influence in who I was designer, but I have some absolute brilliant signers.

[28:25]

Absolutely brilliant.

And the other shows, whose titles I will mention, um, I had less good to some manners sometimes, um, because they were mundane, they were more, they just wanted, you know, they just wanted to put the scenery up, basically.

Yeah, so you mentioned your film work and the vacation film for this episode.

And so I think this is sort of one of the standout parts of the of the show is the massacre and the great big shadows of the Federation guards, driding corridors, and then the flashback scenes, which are really sort of trippy and weird.

Was that sort of a conscious decision on your part to make this a bit auburn strange?

Oh, yeah, absolutely.

I mean, the interrogation thing.

Technology is just advanced so much, but in those days, the best thing you had was a traditional one zoom.

So to bring to get from a close-up of the eye to, you only got to about full length, I guess.

[29:28]

And so I had in this field in Cookham, Bray, Cookham, um, I had a 100 foot element track laid to this, um, to this bed thing that, um, Gareth was fixed on so that, um, I can't remember if I'm getting backwards or not.

I really come, but anyway, there was um, a 100 foot LMAC track.

So the camel went on, LMAC, Dolly, on this track, or 2021, Zoom, had been able to get from this great big wine shot, and because it was at mint, and a lot of light was poured on the gas, so the exterior, you know, the surrounding just wasn't black.

Um, uh, to, to get them shot, I went from, you know, trundling down this out of back, track, uh, and then it was over the zoom, then right in towards.

It didn't, when I saw the episode, it didn't look spectacular to me, and so it was in memory because it was such, those theories, it was so hard to do that.

[30:38]

Yeah, drones and everything, people take it for granted now, but in those days, that's a massive operation.

Exactly.

I mean, oh, but we had grounds in those days.

Yeah, absolutely.

Were you involved in drinking the title sequence?

As you had the 1st episode, do you remember?

Obviously, there was...

What's his name?

Graphics designer was very good graphics designer.

Um, whose name escapes me, but basically, David, Pennant, and I sat around and discussed when we're going with it.

And we got, I remember we got a storyboard for, you know, not the tomato sequence.

It was going to be like, have we discussed the storyboard?

I doubt we made any radical changes because the graphics designer at the time was fairly smart, very good, and graphics, everyone would have chosen somebody who was into, you know, make 7 types south into sci-fi.

So, so other, it doesn't.

[31:39]

It actually looks...

Dated, in my opinion, other things of the show are similar again, but I guess that's because, which is, you know, 10 years will have done so much, and graphics are just, so, animation is so much better.

But it does feature the big dome that you managed to sort of do the match shop for on film, which I've been stands up really well as one of the best effects.

Of that.

I mean, the film industry has been doing that Mac shot for 1000 years.

And in fact, doing that in that shot.

And it's just really, really, it is just really, really good.

And certainly the shadows were planned.

I mean, absence of the coming land, you know, I want to see, you know, obviously, because actually we didn't do that in the guards.

I mean, they had... 20, 20 corners, 30 corners.

That's a lot more they usually had.

So you did very well.

So, um, I can't remember, so it was the few guards.

[32:40]

So, maybe if the world called this became guards.

So I've been looking...

It's all surprised.

So we can do that.

So it seems to me that it would, We should do shadows to make it.

It was a free good location.

Those were World War one, ammunition, um, construction sites under the hill sign in, you know, New Bristol.

I'm sure...

It'll bush your way, that direction.

Where are the Roman baths?

Is it Bristol?

Oh, run the bathroom.

Oh, well.

These are under the, they were originally minds, back in the things of war, they were minds, and World War one, they became, they were became the paper ammunition was constructive.

They were then modernised, again, World War II and electric elevators and electric.

Staircases, what do we call them?

And then, yeah, um, isolated.

[33:41]

Yeah. escalated.

Escalators, indeed, as you know, there were a couple of escalators there.

So it was quite, they didn't work.

We had to walk up and down, of course, but, um, They were very well constructed, very extensive, and themselves.

It was just luck, really.

They were just really the perfect location because if you've got 20 or 30 extras.

It's actually not going to happen.

You get into, you know, into situations where you're in the open field. 2030 extras just vanish exactly.

So it just happened, and then the, um, I like the electric, um, I like the electric carts, uh, which, you know, the varies, an electric vehicle was something where they really knew anything that was was a book float, and, uh, um, Actually, I've got a feeling they could have been walk floats that we, we, um, were modified or... modified or what?

Pimp, which would be the current word for that, wouldn't it?

[34:42]

It was good because like a dream film was there and make it look more, make it look more occupied.

It was a good location, I place in Bath.

Really good.

Yeah, really atmospheric on screen.

I'd had sort of memories of all that filming, which was physically quite tough because it started off by walking down.

I don't know, um, 500 steps down these um, stationary um escalators.

And then you have to travel a bit in there.

It was just really lucky.

That they worked out so very well and just enabled, they didn't do more source improvement.

I mean, that's the trick, isn't it?

You find a good location.

You'll find a really good location.

I made the most of it.

And the location gives it back to you.

So it was a few, from our point of view as viewers, it was a few weeks later that you came back to direct the episode, the web.

Also with fantastic location work out in the woods.

[35:45]

But how did it seem to you coming back to the show now that you've got the full crew in place?

Of course, Paul Darrow's on board, which he wasn't at the very beginning.

I'm contracted to do 3 episodes.

Um, which would have been um, it was called the way back of the web and what was the next one project?

I ended up with the 4th episode, which David was directing.

David University, didn't want to use his directing abilities or reputation or anything else, just in case, you know, they didn't know where the breaks was going to work out and be as successful as it was or not.

So David went through to direct.

So he chose that episode for himself, and he did the film for it, a vocation filming as well, David.

Um, He just discovered that he just got too much on his plate.

They were so busy trying to create episodes to reflect the fact that some people of the Southern were more likeable, perhaps, than others.

[36:53]

And so storylines lent themselves to some characters more than to other characters and to just suddenly start developing the whole thing for a 13 month series.

So David, David King, you said, Michael, I can, you know, uh, can I extend your contract and get you just, uh, can you do the studio for me for the 4th one?

So, to go back to the web.

I confess I was disappointed because I really wrote the episode one script.

It felt more John Windham, if you like.

When we got into things, when we got into the web of the other episodes in series one, Um, they felt, A bit more, more standard sci-fi, we had a joke.

I mean, the 3 of us had a joke, you know, where all braves were worrying where others had been before.

Um, And then, I guess one, yeah, yeah.

This is really, so we're going to try and do something different, which is why I turned the web into Tinsel Town.

[37:56]

I had these balloons and I had, you know, and I did all that stuff with it.

And by the time I got to the web, the, Cast of characters have, you know, the team, the nucleus of characters, had begun to realise that 7, was an awful, Gareth, you know, Gareth was the money, Gareth was the star.

He was really a little bit apart from everybody.

I mean, he was the leading, um, Enough with the brilliant actor, and he knew what he was doing, and he knew how he would try to make his action real.

The rest of guys had the problem over going.

There was no storyline for me in this.

There wasn't enough story I own.

So, The sort of seed of discontent within the group. were beginning to happen on the web, you know, it was just the beginning of people going, um, I don't have to reverse tomorrow, too.

I'll be rehearsing because I want to be on this show.

[38:56]

Actors want to act. don't want to be standing around in the background, and then I want to be sitting in the dressing room.

They're just the seems of discontent. happening, just the seeds.

Nothing serious, but certainly, everybody wanted to, everybody wanted to be in front of a camera.

In the rehearsal room, you have the thing of people trying to outstage each other in theatre terms.

I guess suddenly you've got to do a tight 5 shot of the whole cast altogether on the flight day.

Yeah, yeah, there would be, um, Like, I'm a really good idea.

Why don't I...

Oh, yeah, that sounds terrific.

Let me never think about that.

And that's the episode where when we were doing our listen through for our podcast.

We noticed that as an episode where that, the dynamic between Blake and Avon, as the sort of, you know, their differing principles, really comes to the 4 about, so Avon just thinks of, why, why do we care about saving these people?

these creatures.

[39:57]

Whereas Blake is much more taking the, taking the moral high ground.

Created conflict, whereas the rest of the nucleus, the rest of the group couldn't have conflict, because they basically agree with everything that they were saying.

I mean, nobody, nobody, objection to anything you can say, they've been a different suggestion, possession of what's their brave leader, you know, what they could.

If you don't say, how can I have a woman good, wasn't he?

So, um, and all the married men, the greed was Robin.

So, Ava was brought in.

I have no idea if I had no idea if anything was crisp natural termination.

No idea at all.

Um, You don't have to ask somebody who does know, but, Certainly, it was the perfect foil.

It was for perfect, it was to have a different point of view from, of course, that's, that's nature, of course, of nature episodes, that were the baddies and the goodies, but we didn't really have the baddies at that stage.

So everyone was great.

[40:57]

Yeah.

Yeah, there isn't, yeah, we'll come to her in a moment, but there isn't an external antagonist yet, at least not a superstar proportions.

But in this episode, we noticed there was lots of tracking shots and fades and handheld cameras being used.

Was that something, was that a particular trait of yours to bring to a show or particularly to break?

Or was it something that you felt you could do more with Blake 7 maybe than with less adventurous shows?

I thought...

I don't think we're a fan full of tricking shots.

So, you know, I'd have been, you know, a with with a drone.

And I, and I, and I've always quite liked handful.

I'm always quite like handheld because it gives you a feeling of being involved in a, um, Involved in an action.

I was 1st assistant to a director called Peter Hammond, who was very, very talented, incredibly talented director.

And Peter said, and Peter said to me, the camera should be the 5th wall.

The camera should be involved in the scene.

[41:59]

The camera should be the 5th ward.

It should be in there with the people.

It shouldn't be.

Just any of that.

And the, and the sort of things that the camera does should reflect fully.

I mean, clearly, if you can do a flight sequence, you can do it handheld.

Of course you are.

We're not going to stand there with sort of rock solid studio cameras.

Yeah, I mean, we'll notice sort of through watching your episode, particularly, that the fight scenes, themed, torture, and more action-packed than other directors of the series, Manning, through the 1st series.

So, I mean, coming from Doctor Who, obviously, you had lots of experience of action scenes in that.

No doubt, you know.

Dr. Boom, drove of opportunity to learn about action, to learn about stunts, to learn about techniques.

Um, you know, I'm, I would say, to be very fortunate, Doctor Who for giving me the opportunity to learn how to do all those things.

And one of your effect shots was putting Richard Beale's heads into a tank.

Yes, and poor Richard.

[43:01]

That's funny, friend of mine.

Yeah, I mean, I've done, we were working fairly fast, partly because the scripts weren't there and, you know, there wasn't sort of, you didn't remember too much of trying to forward planning, um, because you just came, you finished the show, and then you were waiting for the script for the next one, because before Chris was desperately trying to feel parental script and veroscript.

So, I've done it.

I've done exactly the same trick.

In a Doctor Who called, was it colony in space?

I think there was, I've got a feeling where I had a head on a little body and I just went, yeah, I will use that.

I will use that technique.

Again, because I guess that's what Penn and I both had this.

We had, we had the ability to look back at our doctoral careers and go, you know, I think it was that trick in order to do this.

Yeah, which was invaluable, so that you haven't got a lot of time.

[44:02]

That's right.

And you want it to be, you must have done it with 15 minutes, and it was a bigger...

Bixon was a bigger canvas in the studio, really, than Dr. Boom was.

Doctor Who is managed to have, the main on any production goes in location for me.

That's all, you know, you've got so many people out there working to produce three, four, or 5 minutes worth of material per day.

Blake 7, have a slightly lower program to a full time than Doctor Who would have done for the same length.

So there is more studio stuff to do, and studio stuff means if you're going to do effects, you need to know that they're going to work.

You can't go into the studio.

I'm sure Ah, David.

I think it was David introduced, or I don't know where it came from, but we certainly had an effects designer in gallery, a guy who gets credited towards him with the credits.

[45:04]

And you would sit in the gallery and I would say to him, uh, look, I want to do, you know, I want to, you know, I want to do this sort of effect.

I want something like this happening in the scene.

I'd miss it down at his control panel on the, on the desk.

And you'd work a well at it.

And then you got in the concept of the scene.

And Michael, have a look at this.

It's just, is this what you, so you would actually, Um, greatly enhance your effects, by, for example, we were talking about the cyclorama in, um, in the 1st episode in the way back.

Well, I hadn't remembered was that I would shoot off the top of the sets.

I hadn't thought about that.

And in the 1st thing else, I went, oh, shit.

I'm off the top into the into the lights.

You know, you can see or again, I mean, look, come to see me, you're such a nice guy, I'm so talented, and was it A.J.

Mitchell?

Yes.

Mitch would say, don't worry about it.

I'll just wipe it white to cover all that.

[46:04]

And it just pulled down.

Yeah, I mean, just so simply, the just.

He pulled it in there.

He took a, he took a piece of encyclonama colour.

It up to full screen, and then wiped it in from the top gowns into, yeah, in a blink, the problem went away.

So, yeah, so when you're describing the fact of it, you would, um, you know, really think about it, and then it presents you something much better than you ever imagine, much better than you ever thought of. exactly what you want.

Very clever guy.

Very smart.

You had a whole set of monsters for this episode.

The decimal.

Oh, yes.

And they're speaking.

The little people.

Depressed little people.

Yeah, Roy.

I could have had children.

Because clearly, kids would do it, but there were films strict working hours for children, and they needed chaperones and needed books, and they needed everything else.

So, um, she and children just seemed, well, it it, you couldn't have filled them in time for the money.

[47:07]

And the trip, that's always the trip, isn't it?

in the time for the money.

I then thought, well, add your little people would be a better idea.

So we had almost every...

I think there's about 8 of them.

I wonder, why, why became quite famous and...

Roy, you know, became well, you went to Hollywood since the end.

And he still speaks fondly about his 70s BBT appearances in Blake Seven and Doctor Who and bonus features about other things.

It's great, seeing it's like that.

These guys, it's quite hard work for them because it's actually very short legs and it's, you know, demons will run around in the heather doing stuff like that.

It's physically very, very demanding, and they were really up for it, and they were in those costumes, which are always, you know, these plastic rubber heads, and plastic rubber costumes are really hard work.

I mean, I just saw they watch out really, really well.

Nice people, really nice people hard working.

I think they have a little professional, little person in the business on their production.

[48:18]

So, thank you very much for listening to the first part of our interview with Michael E. Bryant, who I'm sure you will agree, was absolutely fantastic, talking about the creation of the show, his work on the way back and the web.

We'll be back next time for part two.

Yes, Michael is going to be telling us more about his other 2 episodes. and particularly the return to Wookiehole, and there's a great debate about the different ways that recording has changed.

Single camera versus multicamera in studio.

Plus, a very interesting discussion on the original design of the Liberator.

Yes, indeed.

I can't wait to hear it again myself.

No, nor me.

Before we go, I'd like to say a very big thank you to Jason Thompson of robots in their eyes podcast, who very kindly went and did the difficult thing of approaching Michael in the 1st place when I got a bit shy and couldn't do it.

[49:20]

So Jason, this big, big thank you to you for making this happen and for putting us in touch with Michael.

Absolutely, absolutely.

You had the cojones to just go up and ask nicely, which neither of us dared to do, and it was like, and all this has happened because of that.

So yes, so join us next week for part 2 of the interview.

Thank you very much for listening and goodbye.

Goodbye.

Switching to manual.

Maximum power on all drives.

Maximum power.