WEBVTT NOTE This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 21:48:36 1 00:00:03.720 --> 00:00:06.360 Maximum power. 2 00:00:09.539 --> 00:00:12.060 Welcome to Maxima House. 3 00:00:12.119 --> 00:00:12.960 I'm Colin. 4 00:00:13.019 --> 00:00:13.619 I'm James. 5 00:00:13.679 --> 00:00:14.759 I'm Nathan. 6 00:00:14.820 --> 00:00:17.879 I'm Pete, and I'm Cy. 7 00:00:18.059 --> 00:00:22.859 So let's talk about the very 1st episode of Blake 7, the way back. 8 00:00:22.859 --> 00:00:26.399 So, Simon, tell us what you remember. 9 00:00:26.460 --> 00:00:27.660 Remember, remember? 10 00:00:28.140 --> 00:00:33.539 Well, the 1st thing I want to talk about is how awesome the titles are. 11 00:00:33.600 --> 00:00:43.799 The title sequence never gets enough, enough credit, and I really like that Terry Nation wrote something and then they took it and made it better. than the thing that he'd written. 12 00:00:43.859 --> 00:00:59.640 So it really sets up the show, even though you've got this mysterious ship that we don't actually see yet that just appears in yellow in the middle, but it sets up the, um, the cameras watching everything, which is our very 1st shot of the episode. 13 00:00:59.759 --> 00:01:02.759 It's the guards, it's Blake. 14 00:01:02.820 --> 00:01:11.879 Obviously, something has happened to Blake, and he needs to be eliminated, and it tells the narrative almost of this episode. 15 00:01:11.939 --> 00:01:13.560 And I think that's phenomenal. 16 00:01:13.920 --> 00:01:17.280 And it's really, and there's the thing of, is it, is it a camera? 17 00:01:17.340 --> 00:01:17.819 Is it a gun? 18 00:01:17.879 --> 00:01:24.180 I remember thinking that there was a gun in the start and then realising that it's not a gun, it's a camera, which is like, um, well, there is a gun as well. 19 00:01:24.239 --> 00:01:29.819 But, you know, the spinning left to right security camera, which is like a thing that's really going to be a theme through the episode. 20 00:01:29.879 --> 00:01:34.439 They keep coming back to this idea that, imagine a world where people are looking at you through a camera. 21 00:01:34.500 --> 00:01:38.159 It's uh, it's really interesting to get yourself into that mentality. 22 00:01:38.280 --> 00:02:11.159 I mean, the other thing is, too, it continues to tell the story, because you have Blake, his face is sort of looking at the screen, and then he disappears into the distance, like, into space or something, and then the liberator comes out, you know, so the idea, which this episode sets up, but which the show actually never properly fulfils, is that he sort of disappears into space, into exile or whatever, and then comes back in the form of, you know, fighting guerilla. crew on board the liberator. 23 00:02:11.219 --> 00:02:13.080 And so it is telling that story. 24 00:02:13.139 --> 00:02:20.819 Do you remember the, the idea, the concept with the, with the ID cards falling into a tray or something? 25 00:02:21.960 --> 00:02:23.580 That's right. 26 00:02:23.639 --> 00:02:27.360 Yeah, it was supposed to have pictures of all of the regular cast. 27 00:02:27.419 --> 00:02:38.340 All right, maybe a little bit inspired by the prisoner. coming from a similar, I'm picturing that in my mind's eye with him having been cancelled, being stamped across his face at the start of that. 28 00:02:38.400 --> 00:02:45.240 Um, because there's a, there's a lineage, isn't there, of 60s, 70s paranoia, and how, how to depict it best? 29 00:02:45.300 --> 00:02:48.000 So what did the, was, was the ver- I didn't know all this. 30 00:02:48.060 --> 00:02:54.719 Was the version that, that, that ended up being used taken quite, quite different to what was 1st sketched out? 31 00:02:54.780 --> 00:02:57.479 So I don't think it was ever shot or anything like that. 32 00:02:57.539 --> 00:02:58.560 It was just a concept. 33 00:02:58.620 --> 00:03:01.139 It might have been sort of nation's original concept, I think. 34 00:03:01.740 --> 00:03:06.360 It sounds like he put more words into that than some episodes of Dog Who they submitted. 35 00:03:06.419 --> 00:03:08.759 Well, or them because Bounty. 36 00:03:12.780 --> 00:03:14.939 That was a Blake 7 joke. 37 00:03:15.000 --> 00:03:17.639 I don't get that, yeah, because I don't know, we should say, shouldn't we? 38 00:03:17.699 --> 00:03:27.960 So for the lovely ladies and gentlemen listening at home and Alf Centuris and anyone else, that we, um, we're all from a sort of mixture of this, aren't we? 39 00:03:28.080 --> 00:03:29.460 Like I'm pretty lightweight. 40 00:03:29.520 --> 00:03:37.500 I watched it a bit when I was little when it was on, but I remember having conversations in school playground about, like, why is it called Blake 7 when there's no one called Blake in it? 41 00:03:37.620 --> 00:03:41.580 And we just didn't know, because we hadn't seen the 1st 2 seasons, we were too little. 42 00:03:41.699 --> 00:03:45.060 Uh, but I've subsequently watched it through a couple of times. 43 00:03:45.120 --> 00:03:49.020 Does that make me one of the least well-informed people currently on this call? 44 00:03:49.080 --> 00:03:51.960 And what, you're the noob of the podcast? 45 00:03:53.639 --> 00:03:57.960 Other pals will be joining us further down the line as well, of course. 46 00:03:58.740 --> 00:04:06.360 I remember as a child, we had, it was one of the 1st VHS tapes that my parents bought. 47 00:04:06.419 --> 00:04:16.259 It was arc in space and the beginning, the omnibus version of the 1st 4 episodes. 48 00:04:16.259 --> 00:04:20.220 And I watched that taped to death. 49 00:04:20.279 --> 00:04:27.000 Like, I, it was literally, you know, like, there was barely anything left on the tape by the end of it. 50 00:04:27.120 --> 00:04:35.519 Um, So, look, this has been, I'd say at some points in my life, I would have said I was a bigger fan of Blake 7 than I was of Doctor Who. 51 00:04:35.579 --> 00:04:46.319 It, it, was that it was, it was kind of risqué and, and, you know, like a little naughty to watch because it was an adult program. 52 00:04:46.379 --> 00:04:49.139 It was, you know, it was very gun. 53 00:04:49.199 --> 00:04:49.980 Yeah. 54 00:04:49.980 --> 00:04:51.420 But also frog. 55 00:04:51.480 --> 00:04:53.399 Yeah, we'll get there. 56 00:04:53.459 --> 00:04:55.379 We'll get to the frock, but not this week. 57 00:04:56.399 --> 00:05:09.779 Well, we'll get to the some of the darker moments in this episode a bit later, but yeah, I, like, the way back is still quite new to me because when I watched as a child. 58 00:05:10.319 --> 00:05:15.060 It only really made up about 15 minutes of the entire tape, I believe. 59 00:05:15.120 --> 00:05:18.120 And so whole sways of the plot are just gone. 60 00:05:18.180 --> 00:05:23.519 Like they cut it to shreds to get straight into space four. 61 00:05:23.579 --> 00:05:27.899 Yeah, because there's a lot of procedural investigation going on in this episode, isn't there? 62 00:05:27.959 --> 00:05:33.899 And we're finding out, we don't really know who the, although Blake's obviously got his name in the credits and is facing the credits. 63 00:05:33.959 --> 00:05:41.339 There's almost like the guy who's his, um, who's his, uh, defence, defence counsel, does a lot of antagonist. 64 00:05:41.399 --> 00:05:51.060 Sorry, protagonist eat stuff, uh, of actually investigating what's what the mystery that's been going on. and it's like, it plays games with you, doesn't it, over who's going to actually be a character in this series and who isn't. 65 00:05:51.120 --> 00:05:52.139 Tony Nation loves doing that. 66 00:05:52.199 --> 00:05:55.920 They fit so much into that 50 minutes though, don't they? 67 00:05:55.980 --> 00:05:58.319 Like, so you're introduced to the character. 68 00:05:58.379 --> 00:06:05.100 You think, oh, this is an every man, like he's just, you know, like he's going with a friend to meet some people. 69 00:06:05.160 --> 00:06:09.839 And then, in quick succession, you find out that his whole life is a lie. 70 00:06:09.899 --> 00:06:13.800 His former friends are gunned down by the Federation. 71 00:06:13.860 --> 00:06:16.319 Uh, he gets back. 72 00:06:16.379 --> 00:06:20.339 He's put on, he's he's captured, he's framed. 73 00:06:20.399 --> 00:06:27.899 He's put on trial, he's found guilty, and and then, you know, like you have that investigation plotline. 74 00:06:27.959 --> 00:06:30.839 His defence counsel is horribly murdered. 75 00:06:30.899 --> 00:06:35.819 And then he ends up, you know, on en route to Cygnus Alpha. 76 00:06:35.879 --> 00:06:38.939 Like it's, it's, So much happens in that 1st episode. 77 00:06:39.000 --> 00:06:41.220 It's it's quite full of ideas. 78 00:06:41.279 --> 00:06:55.620 Yeah, world building and I think it's one of the best 1st episodes of any science fiction series, and I've, yeah, I think just in terms of world building and how bleak it is. 79 00:06:55.680 --> 00:06:59.459 I'm really into dystopian futures, they seem to be happening. 80 00:06:59.519 --> 00:07:16.019 Uh, but, you know, the, the 1st shot being the security camera, the 2nd the, the 1st thing you hear is uh, like a woman from Rada with a clothes peg over a nose, you know, the president's speech or whatever, you know, whatever. 81 00:07:16.079 --> 00:07:24.839 And, you know, everyone is slowly sort of like zombified walking through corridors because they've been, they're on, the food is all drugged and stuff like this. 82 00:07:24.899 --> 00:07:27.120 I mean, I could, what time did this go out? 83 00:07:27.180 --> 00:07:29.459 Like 7, 7.30, 750? 84 00:07:29.519 --> 00:07:30.540 Yeah, well, it's interesting. 85 00:07:30.600 --> 00:07:36.060 This one, with all of the dark themes in it, went out at 6.15. sorry, at 6 p.m. yeah. 86 00:07:36.120 --> 00:07:40.379 And then from week 2 onwards, they moved it back to quarter past 7, they pushed it back an hour. 87 00:07:40.439 --> 00:07:44.220 And I don't know if that was in response to feedback or if that was the plan all along. 88 00:07:44.279 --> 00:07:50.040 But this came on after a Tom and Jerry cartoon on that Monday night in January 1978. 89 00:07:50.160 --> 00:07:57.420 In Australia, it was on sort of at 8 pm on our sort of sheetier version of the BBC, which is called the ABC. 90 00:07:57.720 --> 00:07:59.519 I won't have that. 91 00:07:59.639 --> 00:08:01.319 I worked for them for a number of years. 92 00:08:02.220 --> 00:08:04.259 You put in the graft. 93 00:08:04.860 --> 00:08:16.079 And it, you know, it was a sort of slightly naughtier thing to watch just because, I mean, this episode, we have, like, a Varron and Maya, do they have sex, do you think? 94 00:08:16.139 --> 00:08:16.980 They do. 95 00:08:17.040 --> 00:08:17.939 Yeah, no, no, no. 96 00:08:18.600 --> 00:08:21.660 They go to bed and they stop. yeah. 97 00:08:21.720 --> 00:08:26.939 They go to bed while discussing the exact nature of the assault charges against like. 98 00:08:28.259 --> 00:08:29.879 Hello talk. 99 00:08:29.939 --> 00:08:34.740 And then he's like, sorry, darling, I just can't go through this. going to have to go to the computer and get all the information. 100 00:08:34.799 --> 00:08:36.480 It's 2 o'clock in the morning. 101 00:08:36.659 --> 00:08:42.480 One good thing for these totalitarian bureaucracies is that their research facilities are very well staffed. 102 00:08:42.539 --> 00:08:43.740 At 2 AM. 103 00:08:44.519 --> 00:08:50.159 Sorry, my husband just can't get it on with me until we found out whether this person is guilty or not, really. 104 00:08:50.460 --> 00:08:53.460 We might have to bring down the government, in fact. 105 00:08:53.519 --> 00:08:55.019 That's how horny I am. 106 00:08:57.120 --> 00:09:08.100 I promise not to keep banging on about Doctor Who, because I bet that's a really tedious and boring thing for someone on Blake 7 podcast to do, but I would withdraw one lovely parallel, which is, as you just mentioned a minute ago. 107 00:09:08.159 --> 00:09:15.779 This starts with a discordant voice in a corridor, which is exactly how Doctor Who starts with an earthy child with some kids in a corridor. 108 00:09:15.840 --> 00:09:17.399 It's like we're letting you in. 109 00:09:17.460 --> 00:09:20.759 These 2 series are both going to feature corridors, quite heavily. 110 00:09:20.820 --> 00:09:23.279 It's clearly a, it's the launch pad. 111 00:09:24.659 --> 00:09:32.340 What I like about this dystopian world that I notice very much watching it this time is there's no colour. 112 00:09:32.399 --> 00:09:35.279 Everything is white and stark. 113 00:09:35.340 --> 00:09:40.799 And the only colour is from the very drab tabards that everyone is wearing. 114 00:09:40.860 --> 00:09:44.700 Obviously in the future, we're all going to be wearing velor tabards all the time. 115 00:09:44.759 --> 00:09:46.200 I'm wearing one now. 116 00:09:46.259 --> 00:09:46.919 Yeah, exactly. 117 00:09:47.279 --> 00:09:59.639 So, yeah, everything is very blank. all the way through and it's only when you go outside and see the rebels and they're in slightly more colourful costumes than anyone else. 118 00:09:59.700 --> 00:10:03.419 Well, they look like they've just rolled in from the nut hutch. 119 00:10:03.480 --> 00:10:04.080 Yes. 120 00:10:04.980 --> 00:10:09.899 Yeah, it is, and the flares are just quite remarkable. 121 00:10:09.960 --> 00:10:12.299 Is this Blake 7 or the Green Death? 122 00:10:12.360 --> 00:10:21.840 I think the most notable thing about this particular dystopia is the prevalence of polystyrene Henry Moore statues all over the place. 123 00:10:23.879 --> 00:10:26.820 That must be even easier to Nick than the real ones. 124 00:10:26.879 --> 00:10:29.460 The real ones are actually getting Nick from sculpture parks. 125 00:10:29.460 --> 00:10:31.919 At least they're not, the recent real ones aren't made of fun of diary. 126 00:10:31.980 --> 00:10:33.360 No hope at all. 127 00:10:33.600 --> 00:10:40.200 I quite enjoy the the multi-layered pleather sofas all over the place. 128 00:10:40.259 --> 00:10:41.340 Well, yes. 129 00:10:41.399 --> 00:10:42.480 The space sofa. 130 00:10:42.539 --> 00:10:45.000 Yes. space sofas with the CSO background. 131 00:10:45.720 --> 00:10:48.840 What's it called, a terrazza or something, isn't it? 132 00:10:48.899 --> 00:10:55.500 There are some brilliant tweeters who've tracked it down and you can buy one for £14,000 or something because it was a limited edition. 133 00:10:55.559 --> 00:10:57.360 It's quite an expensive sofa, isn't it? 134 00:10:57.419 --> 00:10:57.899 Yeah, yeah. 135 00:10:57.960 --> 00:11:00.179 They spent the entire budget for season one on it. 136 00:11:00.240 --> 00:11:01.139 Yeah. 137 00:11:01.139 --> 00:11:03.539 The left off gallipery. 138 00:11:04.320 --> 00:11:05.399 It turns off on various planets. 139 00:11:05.460 --> 00:11:05.700 Yeah. 140 00:11:05.759 --> 00:11:10.679 Maybe it's like the humans, you know, this bipedal mammal form tends to crop up all over the universe. 141 00:11:10.740 --> 00:11:12.480 So does a certain type of leather sofa. 142 00:11:12.539 --> 00:11:15.720 It's just, it's just like the cyber, it's like cybermen evolving. 143 00:11:15.779 --> 00:11:17.759 It's just one of the natural laws of the universe. 144 00:11:17.820 --> 00:11:20.220 But it's impossible to sit on. 145 00:11:20.279 --> 00:11:22.259 No one looked comfortable on it. 146 00:11:22.320 --> 00:11:32.820 They're all kind of perched at odd angles trying to make it look comfortable while they're discussing how they're going to manipulate Blake's mind and what they're going to put inside it and all of that. 147 00:11:32.940 --> 00:11:35.279 And it's very odd decision. 148 00:11:35.340 --> 00:11:44.759 I had a moment of cognitive dissonance watching it because the prosecutor just looks like Sandy toxic to me. 149 00:11:44.879 --> 00:11:47.340 She's very sandy toss, baby. 150 00:11:47.399 --> 00:11:49.980 I wrote Baby Miriam Markoyles. 151 00:11:50.039 --> 00:11:51.419 Margolese even? 152 00:11:52.379 --> 00:11:55.320 With a Robert Holmes character name. 153 00:11:55.379 --> 00:11:56.220 Yeah. 154 00:11:57.059 --> 00:11:57.600 What's she got? 155 00:11:57.659 --> 00:12:01.139 She's one of those bizarre combinations of a really ordinary name and a space name, isn't she? 156 00:12:01.200 --> 00:12:02.700 Out the morag. 157 00:12:02.759 --> 00:12:04.620 That's the one out. 158 00:12:04.679 --> 00:12:06.720 My name is Colin Morak. 159 00:12:07.919 --> 00:12:11.279 I think that in fact, all 3 of them. 160 00:12:11.340 --> 00:12:13.500 Let's talk about the scene, right? 161 00:12:13.559 --> 00:12:31.320 So we've, we have that sort of weird Blake's been captured after seeing the massacre, and we get a sort of mind fuck scene with Dr. Havant and him, which is sort of sort of notably directed, if not well directed, like there's crossfades and all sorts of interesting things happening. 162 00:12:31.379 --> 00:12:35.159 And then he shouts and then we see that he's being watched on a screen by these 3 people. 163 00:12:35.159 --> 00:12:37.559 And they're all incredibly gay. 164 00:12:37.559 --> 00:12:44.820 And they, like, they hate young people, I think, apparently. 165 00:12:44.879 --> 00:12:52.919 Um, and there is a sort of really weird, like, I don't know that this dystopia coheres, like, I don't know what it's about. 166 00:12:52.980 --> 00:12:54.480 Do you know what I mean? 167 00:12:54.539 --> 00:12:55.799 Are we in? 168 00:12:55.860 --> 00:12:57.419 Are we in Eastern Europe? 169 00:12:57.480 --> 00:12:58.980 Maybe? 170 00:12:59.039 --> 00:13:03.419 So everyone's wearing sort of drab clothes and everything's regimented and stuff. 171 00:13:03.480 --> 00:13:04.440 Like it's not a. 172 00:13:04.799 --> 00:13:08.700 It's not a dystopia that's in any way kind of properly identifiable. 173 00:13:08.820 --> 00:13:10.679 No, it's motifs, isn't it? 174 00:13:10.740 --> 00:13:11.820 It's justopian motifs. 175 00:13:11.879 --> 00:13:13.320 It's deliberately not there. 176 00:13:13.379 --> 00:13:21.779 So you can read into it, what, you know, like, what sort of, what sort of totalitarian these are with their fascists, what they're communists. 177 00:13:21.840 --> 00:13:24.600 I always read them as fascists, not communists. 178 00:13:24.659 --> 00:13:29.580 But it does have that sort of Eastern European people informing on one another. 179 00:13:29.639 --> 00:13:36.179 It's like, you know, it's like Czechoslovakia or something, you know, sort of drab things with sort of public art. 180 00:13:36.299 --> 00:13:37.200 Or East Germany. 181 00:13:37.259 --> 00:13:38.159 Yeah. 182 00:13:38.220 --> 00:13:42.240 I think it is, it is that, but I mean, like, that's a good point. 183 00:13:42.299 --> 00:13:51.480 It is that terrination thing of, you know, let's throw all these things in here and let's make it this as bleak and impossible dystopia that we can. 184 00:13:51.539 --> 00:13:54.419 And I kind of, I wanted a bit more on earth. 185 00:13:54.539 --> 00:13:55.379 I wanted a bit more. 186 00:13:55.440 --> 00:14:02.100 I mean, it's good that it's good that they, you know, they, they, in a couple of episodes of time they're, they're flying about, uh, and everything. 187 00:14:02.159 --> 00:14:09.480 But I kind of feel like that it would have been good to have a bit more backstory into or a bit more depth into what's going on. 188 00:14:09.539 --> 00:14:13.980 It's just like person X popped up and they're from the Federation and they're bad. 189 00:14:14.039 --> 00:14:43.500 I think it's a good point, Nathan, that it's, um, it's not entirely coherent, but I just love the, I love the fact they've just gone for, you know, a computer deciding, you know, the justice orbs or whatever, you know, deciding, like, or and there's drugs in the water and they've never had real food and, uh, and then of course there were these, um, deep fakes, or called viz tapes, where, um, Blake learns about it, his family's death, and he just couldn't give a shit, really. 190 00:14:43.860 --> 00:14:48.840 Well, at the start, he's like, I hear from my family every couple of years, a couple of times a year. 191 00:14:48.899 --> 00:14:51.659 I was like, okay, wow, birthday and Christmas is it. 192 00:14:51.720 --> 00:14:52.379 That's how... 193 00:14:52.500 --> 00:15:02.460 But here I am in this underground 1970s NCP car park with all these people and I'm kind of like, oh, okay, fair enough. 194 00:15:02.519 --> 00:15:04.139 I guess that was a rebel leader. 195 00:15:04.200 --> 00:15:05.220 All right, cool. 196 00:15:05.279 --> 00:15:06.600 You know, I'm back to it. 197 00:15:06.659 --> 00:15:13.980 And loop it, looping back to, to size comment yet about the, about the story, the way that the storytelling really does begin with the title sequence. 198 00:15:14.039 --> 00:15:18.600 That, but if, if, if it didn't have, if you didn't see him screaming in agony in the title sequence. 199 00:15:18.720 --> 00:15:22.500 It wouldn't be the same, would it, for the 1st 15 minutes, where he's just wandering around being shown things. 200 00:15:22.500 --> 00:15:24.120 Oh, yeah. pleasant. 201 00:15:24.179 --> 00:15:32.759 You don't know that this man is about to have something harrowing. is, I mean, you do because it's, it's, it's, the show's named after him and everything. 202 00:15:32.820 --> 00:15:36.539 But you've actually seen him being tortured before it actually happened. 203 00:15:36.600 --> 00:15:44.340 So it's like a, like a Jerry Henderson style coming up in this episode, type of preview almost, as well as a title sequence, isn't it, you know? 204 00:15:45.419 --> 00:15:49.139 Going back to the question of the society. 205 00:15:49.200 --> 00:16:02.700 I don't get quite who is suppressed and who's on on drugs all the time because obviously Dr. Havant and Wenglind and Alta Morag are not drugged and the judge at the trial isn't drugged. 206 00:16:02.759 --> 00:16:05.940 So there's obviously levels of suppressance going on. 207 00:16:06.000 --> 00:16:07.799 Well they work on level six. 208 00:16:07.860 --> 00:16:09.659 Yeah, do we get into that later? 209 00:16:09.720 --> 00:16:12.720 Yeah. some of them are upper class. 210 00:16:12.779 --> 00:16:23.460 Oh, so there is some talk about, you know, they just borrow beta grades and delta grades and stuff from Aldous Huxley sort of later on as a sort of class thing. 211 00:16:23.519 --> 00:16:29.159 But I think that that, you know, there is a clear intention to kind of keep it loose. 212 00:16:29.220 --> 00:16:31.259 They don't want to be tied down to it. 213 00:16:31.320 --> 00:16:32.399 And we're never coming back here. 214 00:16:32.460 --> 00:16:33.240 This earth. 215 00:16:33.299 --> 00:16:37.080 This is the only episode where we see this version of Earth at all. 216 00:16:37.200 --> 00:16:43.379 Um, despite what the episode's title promises and despite the kind of end of the episode. 217 00:16:43.440 --> 00:16:53.879 And so later on, you can just graft on delta grades and stuff like that, if you need to, to, I don't know, belittle Villa, I guess, was the motivation for it. 218 00:16:53.940 --> 00:16:54.659 I don't know. 219 00:16:54.720 --> 00:17:12.059 I, I kind of think that this dystopia is just a kind of big mishmash of sort of Terry Nations, science fiction tropes, you know, and that Terry Nation doesn't have anything really political to say. 220 00:17:12.059 --> 00:17:21.480 And so that's why, like, I don't think he's deliberately leaving it open for the audience to, um, inject their own interpretation. 221 00:17:21.539 --> 00:17:23.940 I just think he doesn't give a shit about any of that sort of stuff. 222 00:17:23.940 --> 00:17:38.039 And, and like when we see the people who oppose the, uh, this dystopian government, they're unbelievably kind of wet and useless, aren't they? 223 00:17:38.160 --> 00:17:39.900 Like, they're so bad. 224 00:17:39.960 --> 00:17:46.319 Oh, we must get, we must get one planet behind us in the next, oh, 2 years. that's right. 225 00:17:46.380 --> 00:17:49.019 I mean, imagine you've got such little age. 226 00:17:49.079 --> 00:17:51.119 It's a centrist uprising. 227 00:17:51.180 --> 00:18:01.380 No, it'd be like the, you know, the rebel alliance deciding that they were going to get, you know, one Death Star cafeteria to go on strike in the next in the next year. 228 00:18:01.440 --> 00:18:03.480 Like they're so dismal. 229 00:18:03.480 --> 00:18:06.180 And it is that sort of 70s student politics. 230 00:18:06.240 --> 00:18:13.259 You know, they're all fucking hippies kind of sitting around and, you know, we're going to offer nonviolent resistance and all of that sort of thing. 231 00:18:13.380 --> 00:18:17.160 A nation has such contempt for them and so does the episode. 232 00:18:17.220 --> 00:18:25.559 So, you know, how many times do we see the shot of, you know, the camera just lovingly, you know, panning. 233 00:18:25.920 --> 00:18:27.720 Yeah, panning over their corpses. 234 00:18:28.680 --> 00:18:33.900 Which nobody has bothered to clean up after several days, I think. 235 00:18:33.900 --> 00:18:35.039 They're all just where they fell. 236 00:18:36.539 --> 00:18:40.920 Yeah, the 20 of those rebels are not going to get very far at all. 237 00:18:40.980 --> 00:18:41.640 Are they? 238 00:18:41.700 --> 00:18:42.960 Really, no. 239 00:18:43.019 --> 00:18:43.920 But I get this. 240 00:18:43.980 --> 00:18:55.500 The thing is, that's, that's, yeah, so it's setting up how, how unusual, the, um, the rebellion that Blake is about to end up bleeding is that there aren't just these huge networks of rebels that he's going, that he can plug straight into. 241 00:18:55.559 --> 00:18:59.220 They were, but they were dismantled by the Federation. 242 00:18:59.279 --> 00:19:01.799 And that's the thing, isn't it? 243 00:19:01.859 --> 00:19:06.839 Like they, they, they, they rebel alliance had worked for, for a time. 244 00:19:06.960 --> 00:19:08.519 Oh, and that's what it's the way back from. 245 00:19:08.640 --> 00:19:17.880 And and and so he, you know, like he was the linchpin and when he was captured and brainwashed, it destroyed all resistance. 246 00:19:17.940 --> 00:19:23.160 And so all that's left is the dirty dozen in space. 247 00:19:23.220 --> 00:19:25.980 And a bunch of fucking hippies rotting in a car park. 248 00:19:26.700 --> 00:19:28.380 Like, yeah. 249 00:19:28.440 --> 00:19:29.940 And that was before they did. 250 00:19:30.000 --> 00:19:32.819 That's the episode title. 251 00:19:32.819 --> 00:19:40.140 But isn't the massacre well done? 252 00:19:40.200 --> 00:19:51.599 Isn't that a brilliant, brilliant set of direction and shots and all the shadows and just the fact that they're not clouding it over with Dudley Simpson music. 253 00:19:51.660 --> 00:20:02.640 It's just the sound effects of the guns and the big shadows and the guards seem really sort of bleak, faceless and they're just there shooting everyone. 254 00:20:02.700 --> 00:20:04.619 And there's a hell of a lot of them. 255 00:20:04.740 --> 00:20:10.380 Well, and the fact is that the Federation Guards actually end up shooting people, it doesn't miss. 256 00:20:10.440 --> 00:20:14.339 I mean, who, you know, is it stormtroopers versus Federation Guards? 257 00:20:14.460 --> 00:20:15.839 That won't last. 258 00:20:17.940 --> 00:20:20.160 Maybe give it an episode. 259 00:20:20.339 --> 00:20:22.440 They were trained on hippies. 260 00:20:22.500 --> 00:20:23.279 But I agree. 261 00:20:23.339 --> 00:20:25.140 It's, it's, it's really well done. 262 00:20:25.259 --> 00:20:26.400 I mean the whole thing's really well directed. 263 00:20:26.460 --> 00:20:40.619 The one thing I noticed this morning was how many times it zooms into someone's eye and, and then crossfades as well, and it's, it's, it's got a, uh, really good feel to it for given the, given the budget they had. 264 00:20:40.680 --> 00:20:45.960 It does look like filming in a, like a, an unfinished tube station or something. 265 00:20:46.079 --> 00:20:48.180 I think it's a nuclear unca. 266 00:20:48.240 --> 00:20:48.900 Oh is it? 267 00:20:48.960 --> 00:20:49.619 Well, there you go. 268 00:20:49.680 --> 00:20:50.279 Yeah, yeah. 269 00:20:50.400 --> 00:20:51.420 Actual dystopia. 270 00:20:51.480 --> 00:20:54.420 It's a little bit like the Sunmaker's location as well. 271 00:20:54.480 --> 00:21:00.599 And I think, do we reuse it for the one with the 4 bald guys? 272 00:21:00.660 --> 00:21:01.440 What's that one called? 273 00:21:01.500 --> 00:21:02.640 Ultra well? 274 00:21:02.700 --> 00:21:04.259 Yeah, no, that's what was exactly what I was thinking. 275 00:21:04.319 --> 00:21:05.400 Ultravox. 276 00:21:06.960 --> 00:21:16.019 Because Michael Lee Bryant's got a lot of Doctor Who under his belt, hasn't a green death, revenge, and robots of death and death to the Daleks. 277 00:21:16.079 --> 00:21:21.599 He's a very death centric director, and it seems maybe that's what got him this gig. 278 00:21:21.660 --> 00:21:36.420 Well, I think he said he could see the possibilities in this show and could see it was going to be a challenge and a chance for him to really make his mark and he seized it with this episode. 279 00:21:36.480 --> 00:21:38.220 I think it was more difficult. 280 00:21:38.279 --> 00:21:43.559 He found it more difficult as it went on because the budget made it difficult. 281 00:21:43.619 --> 00:21:48.420 But I think you can see his episodes all the way through the season are really pushing what you can do. 282 00:21:48.480 --> 00:21:54.480 So when he gets to the web, for instance, and he, he's in a forest and he just says, no, we're, we're going to dress this. 283 00:21:54.539 --> 00:21:55.799 We're going to make it really alien. 284 00:21:55.920 --> 00:22:03.900 He's really trying to push the boundaries of what they can do much more than, say, Pennant Roberts or Via Lorrimer will do. 285 00:22:03.960 --> 00:22:06.119 Although they have their great moments as well. 286 00:22:06.180 --> 00:22:09.299 Because Michael Bryant did, he did several... 287 00:22:09.359 --> 00:22:09.720 I'm right. 288 00:22:09.779 --> 00:22:11.759 He did several episodes of season one but then didn't come back. 289 00:22:11.819 --> 00:22:14.579 I think he got headhunted to more prestigious things. 290 00:22:14.640 --> 00:22:16.680 Yeah, he went on to secret army. 291 00:22:16.799 --> 00:22:17.819 Ah, right. 292 00:22:17.819 --> 00:22:19.799 When are we doing the Secret Army podcast? 293 00:22:19.859 --> 00:22:20.880 We're doing it now. 294 00:22:21.660 --> 00:22:23.579 That's next, James. 295 00:22:23.640 --> 00:22:25.140 It's got to be called listen. 296 00:22:25.200 --> 00:22:26.759 Listen, it's got to be called listen very carefully. 297 00:22:29.819 --> 00:22:32.339 So like, shall we talk about the budget? 298 00:22:32.400 --> 00:22:40.019 Because this show looks really quite good for how much money was spent on it. 299 00:22:40.079 --> 00:22:45.119 It had a smaller budget per episode per story than Doctor Who. 300 00:22:45.180 --> 00:22:49.799 It was made with the budget of softly, softly task force, wasn't it? 301 00:22:49.859 --> 00:22:53.940 It was like, it was a cop dramas budget for a science fiction show. 302 00:22:54.000 --> 00:22:56.339 Yeah, that is staggering, that the BBC worked like that. 303 00:22:56.400 --> 00:22:57.779 But of course they did, yeah. just right. 304 00:22:57.839 --> 00:22:59.400 Give us 50 minutes of drama. 305 00:22:59.460 --> 00:23:01.440 Here's some money, which is space, right? 306 00:23:01.680 --> 00:23:04.200 Just one of the reasons why... 307 00:23:04.200 --> 00:23:08.940 Like, in the agreement, I think, with nation. 308 00:23:09.000 --> 00:23:13.380 It's one of the reasons why every episode in series A is written by Tony Nation. 309 00:23:13.440 --> 00:23:18.900 Because they didn't have the budget to employ anybody else to write the scripts. 310 00:23:18.960 --> 00:23:22.799 Oh, I bet he had to get paid anyway, whether he wrote... 311 00:23:22.859 --> 00:23:25.799 You know, the thing is, is a, is a guy. 312 00:23:25.859 --> 00:23:25.980 Yeah. 313 00:23:26.099 --> 00:23:28.019 You have the budget of a cop drama? 314 00:23:28.799 --> 00:23:31.079 And you have to write every episode. 315 00:23:31.140 --> 00:23:53.819 David Maloney is very cleverly grabbed everyone with talent from Doctor Who to come and do this show for him because they know how to work with a limited budget, doing space stories, and yeah, and Doctor Who suffers because he poaches all the talents. like Roger Murray Leach or all the directors, apart from Via Lorimer, have come from the show. 316 00:23:53.880 --> 00:23:55.319 Chris Boucher, I guess. 317 00:23:55.380 --> 00:23:59.519 Oh, of course, yeah, we lose Chris Boucher from Doctor Who because of this. 318 00:23:59.579 --> 00:24:01.200 Ah, they stole him. 319 00:24:01.259 --> 00:24:02.700 And alter the better. 320 00:24:02.759 --> 00:24:05.160 No, like for Blake 7, not for Doctor Who. 321 00:24:05.220 --> 00:24:08.519 Like, um, Chris Batcher makes Blake 7. 322 00:24:08.579 --> 00:24:14.220 Much more so than Terry Nation, especially after series A. Yeah. 323 00:24:14.700 --> 00:24:21.480 Yeah, that's something I'm looking forward to as someone who doesn't really know the urban flow of it in a way that a more seasoned viewer would. 324 00:24:21.539 --> 00:24:25.680 Because, for example, I mean, one thing about this episode, it's not very funny, is it? 325 00:24:25.740 --> 00:24:33.720 But once we get half an hour in, Villa turns up and again, as a kid, I thought it was a show about Villa and his less entertaining friend. 326 00:24:34.200 --> 00:24:38.220 And because of the way the BBC would do out of season repeats. 327 00:24:38.279 --> 00:24:41.819 You'd watch an episode when someone might leave, let's say. 328 00:24:41.819 --> 00:24:45.119 And then a few months later, there'd be an episode on that they were in again. 329 00:24:45.119 --> 00:24:46.319 And you're like, oh, they're just back. 330 00:24:46.380 --> 00:24:48.000 Maybe it's just random people each week. 331 00:24:48.000 --> 00:24:52.019 And I wasn't following it enough to to be abreast really, what was coming and going. 332 00:24:52.079 --> 00:24:59.759 But yeah, we're half, we're precisely half an hour into the episode before we meet Jenna and Villa. which is just remarkable for a startup episode. 333 00:24:59.819 --> 00:25:02.819 Well, we get someone called Tarrant in the 1st 10 minutes. 334 00:25:02.880 --> 00:25:05.160 Oh, he's obviously going to be a big deal throughout that. 335 00:25:06.900 --> 00:25:13.980 But yeah, no, I was going to say, it's like, what do we think about Villa and Jenna's introduction? 336 00:25:14.039 --> 00:25:19.140 I think this is Michael Keating's very best performance as Villa. 337 00:25:19.200 --> 00:25:34.319 He's so slippery and devious and he feels kind of dangerous in a way that Villa, by Spaceball, has become the comedy character and the comic relief and loses some of that edge. 338 00:25:34.380 --> 00:25:36.720 But I love Comedy Villa. 339 00:25:36.779 --> 00:25:38.819 Comedy Villa is the best thing about this. 340 00:25:38.880 --> 00:25:40.200 I'm not saying I don't. 341 00:25:40.259 --> 00:25:48.359 No, but also, but yeah, I can, and I mean, if the minute Blake had, I mean, the 1st his 1st thing is a bit of a joke about trying to steal Blake's watch and what have you. 342 00:25:48.420 --> 00:26:11.700 But it's, it's done a little bit sinisterly and unnervingly, which is completely in tune with the tone of the episode, rather than him just being all out, you know, raising his eyebrows, as, uh, uh, kind of right in the way that Spock does in, um, uh, in, uh, in Star Trek. spot gets a lot of that, that rate, the one who just, just cuts to him for an observation on how weird all this craziness is, but that's later. 343 00:26:12.059 --> 00:26:14.940 I actually really like Jenna's introduction. 344 00:26:15.000 --> 00:26:17.039 I just think it's super clever. 345 00:26:17.039 --> 00:26:25.859 And it is that where she asks Blake what the time is, just as sort of, you know, just to expose Villa. 346 00:26:25.859 --> 00:26:28.200 And I just think that's terribly clever. 347 00:26:28.259 --> 00:26:30.480 I think it's a definitely Boucher, rather than nation. 348 00:26:30.539 --> 00:26:34.680 Um, and, you know, I think she's really terrific. 349 00:26:34.740 --> 00:26:41.579 I'm not a massive fan of her looking sadly through the bars and wishing someone was here to rescue her as well. 350 00:26:41.640 --> 00:26:44.099 But, you know, what are you going to do? 351 00:26:44.220 --> 00:26:45.299 Foreshadowing. 352 00:26:45.359 --> 00:26:47.880 I just, she's rocking the Susie Quattro look. 353 00:26:47.940 --> 00:26:50.279 That's the full extent. 354 00:26:50.880 --> 00:27:00.779 No, just um, and I think that's one of the, like, the biggest crimes of this show is the way that they treat the female characters. 355 00:27:00.839 --> 00:27:06.240 They're introduced quite strongly. genre is, you know, she's a smuggler. 356 00:27:06.299 --> 00:27:07.440 A free trader. 357 00:27:07.500 --> 00:27:09.059 Yeah, sorry, a free trader. 358 00:27:09.119 --> 00:27:09.660 Yes. 359 00:27:09.720 --> 00:27:14.640 We'll have to do that political discussion at some point in this podcast, but let's save it for later. 360 00:27:14.700 --> 00:27:16.559 She's a strong woman. 361 00:27:16.619 --> 00:27:27.480 She, like, holds the scene and then within about 3 or 4 episodes, she's basically just driving the ship and occasionally having a line. 362 00:27:27.539 --> 00:27:31.740 Same when we get to it with um, with Callie. 363 00:27:31.799 --> 00:27:32.940 Oh, no, Callie's crazy. 364 00:27:33.000 --> 00:27:39.960 She's introduced as a sort of warrior terrorist and she ends up being, you know, kind of wet Deanna Troy. 365 00:27:40.019 --> 00:27:40.980 Yeah, doesn't she? 366 00:27:41.039 --> 00:27:42.599 A nurse. 367 00:27:42.660 --> 00:27:45.299 Deanna Troy, but with backwards telepathy. 368 00:27:45.359 --> 00:27:46.859 Which is the episode? 369 00:27:46.980 --> 00:27:48.359 I think it might be a way off it. 370 00:27:48.420 --> 00:27:53.579 This one where the 2 of them are literally just sat there operating the teleporter for about 3 episodes in a row. 371 00:27:53.579 --> 00:27:58.680 It's like they're just flicking through their mags, beaming the boys down to have their adventures. 372 00:27:59.099 --> 00:28:01.619 Yeah, it's it's terrible. 373 00:28:01.680 --> 00:28:04.079 But they start off really well defined. 374 00:28:04.140 --> 00:28:10.319 The writers don't quite know how to handle strong women, I think, is part of the problem. 375 00:28:10.619 --> 00:28:22.559 And there's no, one thing I noticed that did actually impress me was that they didn't go down the obvious route of there being an any kind of flirtation between, I don't think, in this episode between Blake and Jenner. 376 00:28:22.619 --> 00:28:33.240 Um, he just did not flirt with her in a way that you, I, any, any series would expect that to be a thing and to sort of riff on it, him, uh, some kind of will, they, won't they? 377 00:28:33.299 --> 00:28:36.539 Which may come into it later, but I don't think it particularly does. 378 00:28:36.599 --> 00:28:38.099 But if I remember rightly. 379 00:28:38.160 --> 00:28:50.160 But, um, but the fact that they, they're just interacting as prisoners, uh, uh, rather than there being anything more obvious than that immediately kicking in makes, well, it's, it's the serious tone of the episode, isn't it? 380 00:28:50.220 --> 00:28:50.579 But yeah. 381 00:28:50.640 --> 00:28:53.940 I also just think that Blake's ever never properly does sex. 382 00:28:54.000 --> 00:28:55.079 Do you know what I mean? 383 00:28:55.140 --> 00:28:58.079 Like, it's just not a theme. 384 00:28:58.079 --> 00:28:59.339 They don't want the letters it would generate. 385 00:28:59.400 --> 00:29:00.599 So let's not go there. 386 00:29:02.099 --> 00:29:04.980 We should probably talk about Blake. 387 00:29:05.039 --> 00:29:07.440 Only half the series is really about you. 388 00:29:07.500 --> 00:29:08.279 Why do we need to? 389 00:29:09.299 --> 00:29:14.940 So I think his backstory is ludicrously implausible. 390 00:29:15.000 --> 00:29:24.180 And so it's clear that he has been a massive rebel leader and then he's had his mind wiped twice. 391 00:29:24.299 --> 00:29:24.900 Remember this? 392 00:29:24.960 --> 00:29:26.460 So he's had his mind wiped. 393 00:29:26.519 --> 00:29:31.259 He can't, he's been captured and tried, and then they wiped his memory. 394 00:29:31.319 --> 00:29:38.400 And then he did a public recantation, which again is a very kind of Soviet era kind of totalitarian thing. 395 00:29:38.460 --> 00:29:40.319 And then they wiped his memory again. 396 00:29:40.380 --> 00:30:03.000 And so everyone that he meets every day, the person he buys, you know, the newspaper from, the little old lady who cleans his flat, all of them know that he's a massive, famous rebel leader, but he doesn't know that, and no one he has ever mentioned has ever gone, oh, you're him off that show trial. 397 00:30:03.839 --> 00:30:09.000 They don't give a shit because they're all stoned out of their fucking gourds. 398 00:30:13.500 --> 00:30:18.960 That's a great point Can I have some? 399 00:30:19.019 --> 00:30:20.940 We kind of need it at the moment. 400 00:30:21.000 --> 00:30:34.380 Yeah, that's my favourite line where Blake says to Ravela, it doesn't bother you that you spend your entire life in a drug induced haze, and I kind of feel like I would say, well, I can see the upsides of it, to be honest. 401 00:30:34.440 --> 00:30:39.299 Well, you've been spending your time in a drug induced taste the last couple of weeks. 402 00:30:39.359 --> 00:30:46.200 Yeah, yeah, those painkillers. an old school writer kicking back against the swinging hipsters of the 60s and 70s a bit. 403 00:30:47.099 --> 00:30:55.799 When the show reinvents the dystopia that they're fighting against, which it does in series D. Do I have to call it series D? 404 00:30:55.859 --> 00:30:56.700 I feel so stupid. 405 00:30:56.759 --> 00:30:58.200 Yes. 406 00:30:58.200 --> 00:31:00.539 Don't you enjoy series G? 407 00:31:00.599 --> 00:31:01.619 It's the law. 408 00:31:01.740 --> 00:31:03.359 No, no, it's... 409 00:31:03.359 --> 00:31:06.900 Excuse me, it's Terry Nations, Blake Saddle. 410 00:31:06.900 --> 00:31:11.700 With an apostrophe in apostrophe in nations, but not in the links. 411 00:31:12.960 --> 00:31:14.700 I love that, right. 412 00:31:14.759 --> 00:31:31.079 Can I just, sorry, this is a diversion, but I love the lack of apostrophe because of what it says about what working conditions must have been like the BBC Creatives in 1978 because a designer, at some point, must have just said, I know it should have an apostrophe, that looks better without, and nobody overruled them. 413 00:31:31.140 --> 00:31:33.779 No one in the grammar department could say, but you can't do that. 414 00:31:33.839 --> 00:31:36.240 In radio times, it's billed as the words. 415 00:31:36.299 --> 00:31:38.819 Blake's 7 SEVEN every time. 416 00:31:38.819 --> 00:31:42.960 They couldn't bring themselves to put the number 7 in the name of the front. people. 417 00:31:43.019 --> 00:31:46.019 Maybe in case they confuse people about what time it was on. 418 00:31:49.079 --> 00:31:54.180 Going back to the Blake's backstory and that no one recognises him stuff. 419 00:31:54.240 --> 00:31:56.700 I mean, at what point does he remember? 420 00:31:56.759 --> 00:31:59.579 Because he's kind of like, well, I don't know, I don't know. 421 00:31:59.640 --> 00:32:00.119 I don't know. 422 00:32:00.180 --> 00:32:01.440 It's like, okay, right, yes. 423 00:32:01.500 --> 00:32:02.819 No, I'm fine now, you know? 424 00:32:02.880 --> 00:32:07.019 It's like, he's just suddenly right, well, okay, I suppose I better get on with this. 425 00:32:07.079 --> 00:32:10.799 There's no kind of, like, 0 shit, it's all come back to me. 426 00:32:10.859 --> 00:32:11.460 Yeah, you know? 427 00:32:11.519 --> 00:32:12.599 Yeah. 428 00:32:12.599 --> 00:32:15.720 There's a, I think there's a line in cyclocate, destroy. 429 00:32:15.779 --> 00:32:20.400 The line is, things keep bobbing back into my mind. 430 00:32:20.460 --> 00:32:24.480 Like it's so like it's really a bit shit. 431 00:32:24.539 --> 00:32:26.519 Like a rubber duck in a bath. 432 00:32:26.579 --> 00:32:27.660 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 433 00:32:27.720 --> 00:32:33.539 So, you know, I just don't think the show is interested in this premise at all. 434 00:32:33.599 --> 00:32:38.640 And it throws the premise away at the 1st possible charts. 435 00:32:38.700 --> 00:32:42.119 And then by the time we even think to go back to earth. 436 00:32:42.240 --> 00:32:48.539 The show has sort of changed around the premise so much that this isn't a place that we could ever go back to. 437 00:32:48.599 --> 00:32:53.940 And the only attempt that they ever try to do is in sort of voice, is it voice from the past? 438 00:32:53.940 --> 00:33:00.180 Where they bring, you know, Van Glindback and he's shorter and has a beard or whatever. 439 00:33:00.240 --> 00:33:15.599 Um, and, and, like, it's, it's clearly written by someone who thinks this is an important part of the show, whereas no one is sitting here watching this in 6 weeks time saying, I wonder what happened to Van Gleen. 440 00:33:15.660 --> 00:33:32.700 Was Terry Nation sort of ousted from survivor, you know, a couple of years before this in a dispute about the extent to which survivors should be either just an action adventure series about people surviving, which is what he wanted versus the Terrence Dudley version, which was, no, hey, let's actually spend a year running a farm and getting help. 441 00:33:32.759 --> 00:33:38.880 Which is basically a series 3 of just what's it like running a farm when everybody keeps getting ill. 442 00:33:38.940 --> 00:33:40.259 It's series 3 of Swan. 443 00:33:40.319 --> 00:33:48.359 Um, But, um, I think I can see why Nation, uh, his calling is just to get them all running around with guns, really, isn't it? 444 00:33:48.480 --> 00:33:50.819 Right, here's a reason to run around with guns, off you go. 445 00:33:50.880 --> 00:33:59.759 And again, that was part of the reason why he said he would write all 13 episodes because he wanted to keep control of his series this time round. 446 00:33:59.819 --> 00:34:07.079 It had such a big dispute with Terence Dudley, um, that he wanted to keep control and he does. 447 00:34:07.140 --> 00:34:17.699 I mean, he's always has an input into the, the, um, shape of each season up to the end of season 3 and that, oh, B, C, whichever one. 448 00:34:17.880 --> 00:34:19.739 I've done it now. 449 00:34:20.519 --> 00:34:26.280 And even when they're planning the final season, they talk to him about his ideas. 450 00:34:26.340 --> 00:34:29.880 So he's always got an input, even though he's he's in the states. 451 00:34:29.940 --> 00:34:35.159 Yeah, he's still a sort of, it becomes a Gene Roddenbury figure, I suppose, to next generation. 452 00:34:35.219 --> 00:34:42.780 And um, Gareth Thomas was, in terms of people recognising him for being a famous um, rebel leader. 453 00:34:42.840 --> 00:34:46.559 They will also recognise him for just having been everywhere on TV through the 70s. 454 00:34:46.619 --> 00:34:55.320 I didn't realise until I looked it up, how much, I mean, I knew, I'd seen bits and pieces with him, but he was just never out of work in the, in the, in the lead up to this. 455 00:34:55.380 --> 00:34:57.900 Uh, they had a bit of a dry period afterwards. 456 00:34:57.960 --> 00:35:12.900 But, um, and I mean, and everyone always, as, as people always say, he was, he was a Shakespearean theatre actor, 1st and foremost, but he's got like, you know, 8 or 9 credits every year, as just popping up in episodes of plays for the for today, and how my house of horror and things like that. 457 00:35:12.960 --> 00:35:15.900 And then, but then he had the lead in Children of the Stones. 458 00:35:15.960 --> 00:35:18.420 I love children. 459 00:35:18.480 --> 00:35:19.980 Yeah, it's fantastic. 460 00:35:20.039 --> 00:35:22.139 And that was just like the year before this, I think, yeah. 461 00:35:22.199 --> 00:35:28.860 It's interesting because his one of his more recent credits before this was Star Maidens. 462 00:35:28.920 --> 00:35:32.460 And he basically plays... 463 00:35:33.420 --> 00:35:38.219 No, he plays he plays a rebel leader in that. 464 00:35:38.280 --> 00:35:49.860 Yeah, and he's he's there because he's been casting as the lead in a in a peak time drama series and he's going to show everyone how much acting he can do rather than he is not, he's not showing up and just, just taking the check or, you know, you know what I mean? 465 00:35:49.920 --> 00:35:53.940 I mean none of them are, but, but in a, in a series like this, somebody with his pedigree. 466 00:35:54.000 --> 00:35:55.860 It's just brilliant. 467 00:35:55.920 --> 00:36:04.920 The head of drama, the BBC, basically said, no, no, we do not want Gareth, Thomas, because he's too well known. 468 00:36:04.980 --> 00:36:09.599 I thought you were going to say because he's too Welsh because he's too Welsh known. 469 00:36:09.719 --> 00:36:11.219 It's too Rada. 470 00:36:11.280 --> 00:36:16.260 But no, they wanted, they wanted a, like a newcomer. 471 00:36:16.320 --> 00:36:26.820 They wanted to have somebody who was completely unknown and they pushed against it for quite a while before they agreed to allow him to to be cast. 472 00:36:26.880 --> 00:36:45.119 He really kind of exposes himself, I think, in this episode, and it is partly because the 1st half completely centres on him and the camera's on his face, and he is forced to kind of do some pretty sort of, you know, high calibre emoting and stuff. 473 00:36:45.179 --> 00:36:48.059 And I think he sort of pulls it off. 474 00:36:48.119 --> 00:37:01.440 I mean, I get the impression that he eventually feels he's slumming it and when the show turns into kind of, you know, space corridors and stuff like that, he's kind of out at the 1st kind of possible opportunity. 475 00:37:01.500 --> 00:37:10.260 Um, but I imagine the opportunity to do the sort of acting that he gets to do here is what he is. 476 00:37:10.320 --> 00:37:14.579 Yeah, there's that moment where he's like, and close up on Gareth and just react react react. 477 00:37:14.639 --> 00:37:18.840 You realise you've just accidentally confessed to being a child abuser and Zoom. 478 00:37:18.900 --> 00:37:26.159 And it's like, yeah, that was not something that he would get from other gigs at the time, from an episode of an episode. 479 00:37:26.219 --> 00:37:30.360 Tell me a child abuser if you didn't watch the omnibus version of this. 480 00:37:30.420 --> 00:37:31.619 Did they cut that out? 481 00:37:31.679 --> 00:37:38.400 Yeah, like, like, it's just like, you're like, we're going to put you on trial and you've been sentenced. 482 00:37:38.460 --> 00:37:46.440 I'm so glad as an eight-year-old child watching this show on VHS, that they cut out the child abuse plotline. 483 00:37:46.500 --> 00:37:47.699 I'm not sure. 484 00:37:47.760 --> 00:37:49.139 I don't know. 485 00:37:49.199 --> 00:37:53.400 I think the child abuse spotline, like from a modern point of view is sort of indefensible. 486 00:37:53.460 --> 00:37:59.219 You know, like I just don't think you could really properly do that in a drama that you thought any kids were going to watch. 487 00:37:59.280 --> 00:38:07.500 And, you know, just because triggering and sort of unpleasant and a bit cheap in our sort of... 488 00:38:07.559 --> 00:38:08.820 Well, but it doesn't. 489 00:38:08.880 --> 00:38:16.679 I mean, it doesn't kind of matter, but this is our sort of sort of space corridors, soap opera, and do we need to bring child abuse into it? 490 00:38:16.739 --> 00:38:25.019 But I do think that it is interesting because all the child abuse, because child abuse actually does occur. 491 00:38:25.079 --> 00:38:31.139 There's, you know, the charges are trumped up against Blake, but, you know, Those children are abused. 492 00:38:31.199 --> 00:38:37.260 Yeah, Dr. Haven takes them out of school and implants memories of being, you know, abused. 493 00:38:37.320 --> 00:38:41.159 So they abuse the children in order to, yeah. 494 00:38:41.219 --> 00:38:43.199 They're not abusing the children sexually. 495 00:38:43.260 --> 00:38:52.440 No, they are, because they're planting memories. no, no, no, no. physically abusing them, sexually, they're psychologically implanting sexual abuse is basically the same thing. 496 00:38:52.500 --> 00:38:54.599 It's literally the same Yeah. 497 00:38:54.599 --> 00:38:57.599 It's fucking horrific. 498 00:38:57.659 --> 00:39:00.780 Like, it's just, 0 my god. 499 00:39:00.840 --> 00:39:04.920 I do think, though, that Nigel Lambert does lighten that scene up a bit. 500 00:39:05.039 --> 00:39:08.280 Oh, the guy with the 2 AM shift. 501 00:39:09.179 --> 00:39:11.400 With his funky glasses. 502 00:39:11.639 --> 00:39:15.119 And is bopping to his mu- to his more... 503 00:39:15.119 --> 00:39:15.719 I love that theme. 504 00:39:15.780 --> 00:39:25.980 It's that thing about the banality of evil, that keeps comes up in a lot of dystopian stuff and Nation clearly likes riffing with that too, doesn't it? 505 00:39:26.039 --> 00:39:35.760 All these people that we see and we see it in the next episode as well, who are really cooperating with and part of the infrastructure of this evil regime. 506 00:39:35.880 --> 00:39:37.559 They're just going about their business, really. 507 00:39:37.619 --> 00:39:39.300 They don't they're not they're not fanatics. 508 00:39:39.360 --> 00:39:46.079 No, it's about the bureaucracy and the admin of it all, and it's the admin that gets them found out in the end. 509 00:39:46.440 --> 00:40:03.179 I love the end of that scene where, you know, Lambert, who has been sort of hilarious and sort of, you know, and he's a nobody, like he's just a sort of character who's there to press the buttons and stuff and he does the sort of cute, you know, bopping along with his watchman. 510 00:40:03.239 --> 00:40:05.519 I think we call that box. 511 00:40:05.579 --> 00:40:11.579 Um, and then he just calls, you know, they leave and he places a phone call. 512 00:40:11.639 --> 00:40:12.539 I think it's so great. 513 00:40:12.599 --> 00:40:14.579 It's a really sort of, you know. 514 00:40:14.639 --> 00:40:16.920 Like you think he's, you think he's a joke character. 515 00:40:16.980 --> 00:40:20.699 Yeah, he just leans forward and kills them with a button. 516 00:40:20.820 --> 00:40:23.760 It's like literally, oh, I'd like to report something. 517 00:40:23.820 --> 00:40:32.639 It's like, oh, wow, like, you know, like, on a pinhead, like, he just turns from being this joke character into basically getting someone sentenced to death. 518 00:40:32.699 --> 00:40:35.280 Yeah, and again, that's the Eastern European thing. 519 00:40:35.340 --> 00:40:36.000 Do you know what I mean? 520 00:40:36.059 --> 00:40:47.039 The idea that there are people who will, you know, the communist thing, people will, um, you know, delay you to the authorities at the sort of slightest provocation. 521 00:40:47.099 --> 00:40:51.000 So I, you know, like I think that's, that is kind of... 522 00:40:51.000 --> 00:40:56.460 Yeah, it's the sort of John LeCarre edge to that as well. just, yeah, the grimness of totalitarians and what it does to people. 523 00:40:56.579 --> 00:40:58.019 Yeah. 524 00:40:58.440 --> 00:41:03.239 One other person in the cast, I've got to mention, because she shines in her moment. 525 00:41:03.300 --> 00:41:06.059 She's only billed as screaming female prisoner. 526 00:41:06.119 --> 00:41:18.000 But, um, but I, if I could take that 11 role and, and, and say, let's make this person a regular, it would be Beryl Nesbitt, who not only has a fantastic name of Beryl, Beryl. 527 00:41:18.059 --> 00:41:23.760 Uh, but also it is, um, Good well-being. 528 00:41:23.820 --> 00:41:28.739 And um, she, uh, yeah, I, I, I, I saw, I was just looking down the castle list. 529 00:41:28.800 --> 00:41:31.500 I saw someone who's builders screaming female prisoner and I was like, oh, okay. 530 00:41:31.559 --> 00:41:34.380 I wonder if I'll be able to spot her and 0 boy, can you spot her? 531 00:41:34.800 --> 00:41:39.420 And it helps because it's being dragged away by the hair almost. 532 00:41:39.480 --> 00:41:42.179 Yeah, they're really nasty to her. 533 00:41:42.239 --> 00:41:43.380 And yeah. 534 00:41:43.440 --> 00:41:44.460 And it's in the scene. 535 00:41:44.519 --> 00:41:54.179 That's the one bit where the money shows, I think, the lack of money shows is that the, is the actual detention area that they're all, that they're all held in when we 1st meet Jenna and and Villa. 536 00:41:54.239 --> 00:41:55.800 Uh, it's just a room. 537 00:41:55.860 --> 00:41:58.199 I think you can sort of see curtains in the distance. 538 00:41:58.260 --> 00:42:00.059 Yeah, it's just a big... 539 00:42:00.119 --> 00:42:01.800 It's a theatre set, basically. 540 00:42:01.860 --> 00:42:11.760 And so you've got to have, but having that woman, and having, having her there to, to sort of, you look at her 1st screaming and being dragged away, and then you follow to the other characters. 541 00:42:11.880 --> 00:42:17.699 It sort of stops you from looking too much at the uh, the shadows and the lack of a ceiling and things like that. 542 00:42:17.760 --> 00:42:19.920 It's very posh screen. 543 00:42:19.980 --> 00:42:22.260 I think I think she's really going for it. 544 00:42:22.559 --> 00:42:34.980 Who, who, I think it's Stephen Fry who says that, you know, actresses are mad. you know, and that they all just sort of absolutely go crazy at the drop of a hat in a performance, you know? 545 00:42:35.039 --> 00:42:38.280 And she, she's so going for it. 546 00:42:38.340 --> 00:42:46.559 And I think that that, that moment actually is the most kind of dystopian moment. 547 00:42:46.619 --> 00:42:54.000 Like there's all of this sort of, you know, like I said, Polystyrene Henry Moore statues and sort of bullshit and stuff. 548 00:42:54.059 --> 00:43:00.840 But the fact that that woman is being just carted off screaming and everyone, like no one really particularly reacts to it. 549 00:43:00.900 --> 00:43:03.420 And it goes on for a really long time. 550 00:43:03.480 --> 00:43:12.659 I actually think that that's darker than any kind of, you know, ill judged conversation we have about child abuse or something like that. 551 00:43:12.719 --> 00:43:18.300 I think that, that watching that, that's the moment where it's least like Doctor Who. 552 00:43:18.420 --> 00:43:20.159 It's a long scene. 553 00:43:20.219 --> 00:43:21.239 It's quite uncomfortable. 554 00:43:21.300 --> 00:43:25.800 Yeah, it's worse than the massacre scene because people don't really scream in that. 555 00:43:26.039 --> 00:43:26.639 No, I'm dead. 556 00:43:26.699 --> 00:43:30.840 I'm just I'm just relieved that meeting is over. 557 00:43:30.900 --> 00:43:33.059 You know, like... 558 00:43:33.059 --> 00:43:34.619 Oh, look, there's a hole in my chest. 559 00:43:38.400 --> 00:43:45.059 Well, they at least have paid them to going right to the actors to at least actually look slightly upset about being shot. 560 00:43:45.119 --> 00:43:47.280 I'm so inconvenienced. 561 00:43:47.340 --> 00:43:49.380 I'm going to have to get this dry cleaned. 562 00:43:49.500 --> 00:43:52.320 I'm sure there's one guy that he gets shot. 563 00:43:52.380 --> 00:43:53.519 He falls over. 564 00:43:53.579 --> 00:43:57.119 He rolls over some of the other bodies and in the distance. 565 00:43:57.179 --> 00:44:01.260 He sort of. gets up and just decides to be shot again, you know? 566 00:44:01.320 --> 00:44:03.599 He probably got paid twice. 567 00:44:07.199 --> 00:44:11.159 So, can we talk about the special effects? 568 00:44:11.159 --> 00:44:14.940 Because this is something that Blake 7 always gets a kicking for. 569 00:44:14.940 --> 00:44:20.460 And I always feel that it doesn't always deserve it. 570 00:44:20.519 --> 00:44:37.440 Sometimes it does, quite often it does, but I think we've got some excellent model shots at the end of this episode where the London is taking off and that looks magnificent and I really love the match shot of the great big dome behind them when they're out on location. 571 00:44:37.500 --> 00:44:38.940 Yeah, yeah. 572 00:44:39.000 --> 00:44:40.380 It really all... 573 00:44:40.440 --> 00:44:44.820 This is the one where they've frontloaded their budget spent, haven't they, to make a really good impression in week one, I guess. 574 00:44:44.880 --> 00:44:46.559 It looks great in standard death. 575 00:44:46.619 --> 00:44:48.539 Which is, you know, it's fine. 576 00:44:48.599 --> 00:44:49.559 It was incentive. 577 00:44:49.619 --> 00:44:58.079 Like it was, it was designed for small TV screens, which, you know, didn't have a great resolution. 578 00:44:58.139 --> 00:45:08.340 And until you watch it, you know, widescreen, not that it's ever been recent, high definition, but until you watch it in, like, you know, blown up. 579 00:45:08.400 --> 00:45:11.099 I, I, I totally believe that. 580 00:45:11.159 --> 00:45:16.559 Yeah, I, as a child, I totally believe that that was a domed city in the distance. 581 00:45:16.619 --> 00:45:18.000 I was like, where did they film that? 582 00:45:18.059 --> 00:45:30.300 I think that Blake 70 is sort of super weird because every so often you get like a model shot like the London, which is spectacular. 583 00:45:30.360 --> 00:45:35.880 But there are other shots of the London that are just shit. you know, like where it's an FX model or whatever. 584 00:45:35.940 --> 00:45:37.980 And it's the same with a liberator. 585 00:45:38.039 --> 00:45:41.820 I think that when the liberator comes along and we'll talk about this next time. 586 00:45:41.880 --> 00:45:44.280 You know, there's one model. 587 00:45:44.340 --> 00:45:54.659 Like they've clearly commissioned, all right, we want you to build a really good model and then a really shit plastic one as well that we can use for other shots for no reason. 588 00:45:54.960 --> 00:46:00.000 And so it is sort of super strange, but I think that that glass shot. 589 00:46:00.059 --> 00:46:04.139 I don't think it convinces really, but it doesn't have to. 590 00:46:04.199 --> 00:46:09.239 I really like the image and that's in the credits as well, isn't it? 591 00:46:09.300 --> 00:46:11.639 It is, yeah, that's the start of the credits, isn't it? 592 00:46:11.699 --> 00:46:20.400 So like that's clearly an important idea, you know, that everyone sort of lives in these sort of weird ass cities and stuff. 593 00:46:20.460 --> 00:46:28.199 Yeah, yeah, but I do think it looks amazing and it really sells it and it is something that I think is super notable. 594 00:46:28.260 --> 00:46:29.579 There's some really good articles. 595 00:46:29.639 --> 00:46:33.539 There was a lovely one that we could share in the notes that was published by one of the Broadchus. 596 00:46:33.599 --> 00:46:36.059 Was it the independent, publish that really nice article, isn't it? 597 00:46:36.119 --> 00:46:41.639 Even that couldn't stop itself from ending of the end with them, of course, the wobbly sets. 598 00:46:41.760 --> 00:46:59.460 And I, that's one of the things that always riles me because, yeah, occasionally, but like you'd get that on any soap opera, on any drama series, but people just go, people gun for science fiction, if they see science fiction having the same production values, of other series of the same area. 599 00:46:59.519 --> 00:47:08.340 There's some great moments in Faulty Towers where they're sort of set literally can be seen to fall apart. like under the onslaught of John Clay. 600 00:47:08.400 --> 00:47:10.860 Like it is, you know, it's the period. 601 00:47:10.920 --> 00:47:22.800 I think it looks the period, you know, and they've got the budgetary constraints of having to create a world, you know, like they don't just sort of buy furniture from sort of down the road or anything. 602 00:47:22.860 --> 00:47:24.000 I don't know. 603 00:47:24.059 --> 00:47:28.980 They did spend £14,000 on that sofa, so... 604 00:47:28.980 --> 00:47:31.500 They didn't buy it, Jane. 605 00:47:31.559 --> 00:47:32.519 It was on loan. 606 00:47:33.119 --> 00:47:35.760 I just dragged it in from the BBC lawyer. 607 00:47:36.059 --> 00:47:49.860 My favourite thing is that big door to the outside where they have to go through is basically a bit huge bit of wood that has, they've sort of put silver duct tape around the top bit and the bottom bit. 608 00:47:49.920 --> 00:47:51.599 So it looks a bit spicy and a bit metal. 609 00:47:51.840 --> 00:47:55.559 And that door keeps dropping up through this series. 610 00:47:55.619 --> 00:47:59.159 They're obviously spent a lot of money on that piece of set. 611 00:48:00.360 --> 00:48:04.199 And so it ends on an exciting positive note. 612 00:48:04.260 --> 00:48:05.280 He definitely going to come back. 613 00:48:05.340 --> 00:48:08.280 He's going to find his way back and free everyone. 614 00:48:08.340 --> 00:48:11.099 No, I mean, but he doesn't come back, does he? 615 00:48:11.159 --> 00:48:15.420 He never comes back to this version of earth. 616 00:48:15.480 --> 00:48:17.400 And so, in a way. 617 00:48:17.460 --> 00:48:28.380 I mean, because that final shot is him looking out the window and seeing the earth and its associated moon kind of, you know, disappearing into the distance. 618 00:48:28.440 --> 00:48:34.559 And, and so the show never really pays it off. 619 00:48:34.619 --> 00:48:36.780 And so, I don't know. 620 00:48:37.139 --> 00:48:44.820 There's something about the way that the show takes 4 episodes to kind of build to its actual premise. 621 00:48:44.880 --> 00:48:47.519 Like, you know, everything's in place after that. 622 00:48:47.579 --> 00:48:49.679 But it does take a while to do that. 623 00:48:49.739 --> 00:48:59.099 And I think that's super interesting because it takes us a while to know what the show is and it isn't just a procedural. tuning into the same thing every week. 624 00:48:59.219 --> 00:49:06.000 You know, Star Trek comes to us in a sense fully formed, even though that sort of unaired pilot doesn't have the final cast. 625 00:49:06.059 --> 00:49:08.880 It still has the there in a spaceship. 626 00:49:08.940 --> 00:49:12.840 They go to a planet, an alien thing happens, they solve it, they go away. 627 00:49:12.900 --> 00:49:15.780 But we don't know what the show's going to be. 628 00:49:15.840 --> 00:49:19.860 And we spend sort of 4 episodes finding out. 629 00:49:19.920 --> 00:49:22.800 And, and like, I do think that that's interesting. 630 00:49:22.860 --> 00:49:34.260 But then once we find out, it is just, you know, a procedure with space corridors and stuff like that, and nothing that we've seen in those 4 episodes ever ends up kind of properly paying off. 631 00:49:34.320 --> 00:49:45.300 And so our experience of Blake 7, which was kind of coming in halfway through and not even knowing any of this staff, apart from James, obviously. 632 00:49:45.360 --> 00:49:48.059 Like, it actually doesn't matter, does it? 633 00:49:48.119 --> 00:49:52.980 We can still pick up what the show's about without really seeing any of this stuff at all. 634 00:49:53.099 --> 00:50:06.059 So I think it's something that works on 1st broadcast because I think it is an interesting way of pitching the show initially, but it's not really the premise of the show in any real day-to-day sense. 635 00:50:06.119 --> 00:50:08.639 You need a Travis and a server land. 636 00:50:08.699 --> 00:50:09.000 Exactly. 637 00:50:09.960 --> 00:50:14.519 But I mean, Travis and Servilan are not creatures of this world. 638 00:50:14.579 --> 00:50:20.099 No, you can't sustain the Federation being a faceless bureaucracy for very long. 639 00:50:20.159 --> 00:50:25.920 It needs, you need to give Blake a face to fight against, which they do eventually. 640 00:50:28.980 --> 00:50:36.179 So this, this, this, is this typical of a Blake 7 episode and feeling very much like part one of a two-part story. 641 00:50:36.239 --> 00:50:38.820 It's it is that's atypical, isn't it? 642 00:50:38.880 --> 00:50:41.579 They're normally more self-contained, are they? 643 00:50:41.639 --> 00:50:43.380 You don't often get, it feels like a cliffhanger ending. 644 00:50:43.440 --> 00:50:48.119 There are some cultural theorists, for want of a better word. 645 00:50:48.179 --> 00:50:58.320 Um, who, who argue that Blake 7 is the sort of proponent of, of the arc plot in, in science fiction. 646 00:50:58.440 --> 00:51:03.420 Science fiction before Blake 7 had never really done Nag plot in the same way. 647 00:51:03.480 --> 00:51:08.400 Like the whole series is really about the way back. 648 00:51:08.460 --> 00:51:11.039 Yeah, but I don't think in any sense it is. 649 00:51:11.099 --> 00:51:14.460 And certainly, I think there is an arc plot in series two. 650 00:51:14.519 --> 00:51:26.460 Sorry, B. But, you know, like this thing, these 4 episodes that we're sort of about to embark on talking about, I do think that that's remarkable. 651 00:51:26.519 --> 00:51:34.380 I do think that the job of a TV pilot is to let you know what it is you're likely to be watching every week. 652 00:51:34.380 --> 00:51:37.559 And this absolutely refuses to do that. 653 00:51:37.619 --> 00:51:41.219 And in a sense, maybe that's a bad idea. 654 00:51:41.280 --> 00:51:53.820 But in another sense, I do think that it is interesting, and I do think that for the 1st while, for the 1st half of series A, you'll be tuning in and literally not knowing what to expect. 655 00:51:53.880 --> 00:52:00.840 No, I think there's a very good case for seeklocape destroy being almost a 2nd pilot. 656 00:52:00.900 --> 00:52:05.940 This kicks off the show, how it's going to be from now on, and off we go. 657 00:52:06.059 --> 00:52:06.420 Yeah. 658 00:52:06.420 --> 00:52:13.260 I think okay to destroy series A of Blake 7 is Dalek to series one of Doctor Who. 659 00:52:14.099 --> 00:52:29.159 It reestablishes kind of where these characters are, what they're about and introduces some new exciting threads into it, which kind of relaunches the series midseason. interesting. can't wait. 660 00:52:35.400 --> 00:52:37.679 That's it for the way back. 661 00:52:37.739 --> 00:52:40.019 Next week we'll be back with Space fall. 662 00:52:40.079 --> 00:52:42.239 So thank you very much for listening and goodbye. 663 00:52:42.300 --> 00:52:43.139 Good night. 664 00:52:43.199 --> 00:52:43.619 Goodbye. 665 00:52:43.619 --> 00:52:44.219 Goodbye. 666 00:52:44.280 --> 00:52:45.059 Good night, darling. 667 00:52:45.119 --> 00:52:46.139 And goodbye from me. 668 00:52:53.460 --> 00:52:55.559 Switching to Matty. 669 00:52:55.619 --> 00:52:57.659 Maximum power on all drives. 670 00:53:00.719 --> 00:53:02.880 Maximum power.